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Giants Loss to Browns a Blessing?

Giant Nation was force-fed a huge pile of humble pie on Monday night.  Making the taste resonate worse is the unfamiliarity that we have with the dish as of late.  The Giants haven’t seen an “L” in the loss column since late December of 2007.  The incredible finish to last season, coupled with the sensational start to the 2008 campaign, have left the Giant faithful accustomed to a higher quality of football from that of our last showing.  The consecutive win streak, the road-warrior association, the impenetrable defense, and the impeccable Eli all took a back seat to reality on Monday.  However, let me stress that we did not lose that game by ourselves, Cleveland lined up (like we did in the Super Bowl) and spanked us in every facet of the game – kudos to the Brownies.  So, what now?

So, we correct ourselves.  It is inevitable in this sport that a great disappointment will occur more than once a year.  While it is shocking that one of these disappointments occurred before our stretch of tough division games, it has happened.  Hazem hit it right on the head when he stated that we squandered a terrific opportunity to take a strangle-hold on the NFC East Monday Night.  While many are hitting the panic button, calling their uncles and conceding that all of the Giant-haters are right:  Eli sucks, the Giants will always play down to their competition, and the defense has been found out and exploited without Osi and Strahan, I choose a different perspective. 

What better way to prepare a team for a huge stretch of difficult match-ups than having this taste in their mouths?  While I won’t say that we have been overly cocky, the Giants carried a swagger about them above which that simply said “We are a good football team”.  I was even starting to feel that were becoming indestructible – back to Earth, Murph.  Let’s look back at the beginning of the season:  Say what you will about our showing against Seattle, which was an utter domination, but these other games that we have played were closer than the box relayed at the final whistle.  We struggled to get an overtime victory against the Bengals, and then followed that up with a less-than-stellar effort versus the winless (at the time) Rams.  These games were way too close and anybody critically analyzing these performances would agree that Big Blue just could not get that necessary first down, fell short of the big stop, and missed the small opportunities to put the kibosh on these contests much earlier than we did.  We have to do a better job putting teams away when then are steadying themselves on the ropes.  The Seattle game was a much better performance from which we can take pieces of advice.

On Monday, our pass rush was non-existent, our press coverage was weak, our man coverage was awful (Mr. Ross), the routes were not crisp, the protection up the gut broke down, and reads on the defense weren’t made by Eli – all of these things contributed to our failure.  You cannot, regardless of who you line up against, take preparation lightly.  I am not certain that was the case but in my humble opinion, there was no excuse for the ineffectual performance by the Jints other than a lack of preparation.  The 49’ers, Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles, Ravens, Cardinals, Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, Panthers, and Vikings – go ahead and look again.  This is the remaining schedule for 2008.  It is safe to say that we have had our fly weeks already and should be geared up for plenty of quality football in the following weeks.  If we continue to let teams keep a foot in the door or, as in the case of the Browns, slam the door in our face, we will not meet expectations.  And just winning a Super Bowl isn’t enough for me.  Mediocrity is never welcomed during a Giant’s game.

We must become more clever on defense and get to the quarterback in whatever ways possible, we must stop the pressure on Eli up the middle, we must get back to the fundamentals of quality coverage in the secondary, and we must make better decisions with the football.  I feel, actually, I know that this loss will motivate the Giants.   

I live in Cleveland and have spent the better part of this day listening to the Cleveland fans and media personnel dismissing the Giants as overrated.  I have also seen the national consensus waver on the fence whether the Giants “are who we thought they were.”  I know we back a better football team than that which was on the field Monday night.  I also know that even though Coughlin isn’t into bulletin-board material, he will use this day as a reminder to the complacent.  We will see if there have been lessons learned when we attempt to get refocused this coming weekend.

-Dan Murphy

Comments

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fanfor55years said:

Amen. Great piece.

October 15, 2008 12:52 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Nice Article and welcome aboard ( in an"official" capacity that is). If I havent mentioned it before your Avatar ( alng with Casherm's )puts a smile on my face everytime I see it.

October 15, 2008 1:06 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Great job man. Enjoyed reading that.

October 15, 2008 1:10 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

Nice article. Glad to see one of common posters rewarded with getting to write for G101. I agree with you 100% that the loss will bring good things to the future. I look forward to future articles.

October 15, 2008 1:14 PM
 

Krow said:

The Salary Cap...

There was a question in the last thread about how "some teams" always seem to be able to find the money.

Now let me preface this with a disclaimer... it's only my opinion.  But I've been around the block... and in many varied instances I've seen businesses and regulations collide ... both public and private sector.

And to sum it up... "where there's a will there's a way".

We had a saying in State government, "When you're told they can't do something for you... what's really being said is that it's too much trouble.".  It's more a 'won't' than a 'can't' if you get my drift.

Some teams aggressively try to sign players.  They often... like the Cowboys... don't care if they run in the black.  The owner is typically rich, and this is his toy.  Think Eddie Debartolo.  Think Dan Snyder.  They WANT to find a way.

Other teams need to run as a business.  This is how they make their living.  It's a mighty fine living, but this is where it comes from.  So they're more frugal by nature.  They have real fiscal responsibilities.  Think Mara... Rooney.

The problem comes when fans (like us) ask the question.  We ask why a player was allowed to sign elsewhere... or why we passed on a free agent.

And we're told that they didn't have the cap space.  Which is a lie.  What they really mean is that it's too expensive.  That they won't spend that kind of money for DeAngelo Hall for instance (thank goodness).  But rather than take the heat for making a business decision... they try to hide behind the cap.

We then feel we're lied to... which is accurate... and it pi$$es us off.

If teams simply told the truth then it would go down a lot easier with the fans.  But instead they use the salary cap as an excuse.  And therein is the rub.

October 15, 2008 1:20 PM
 

ERICHONIUS said:

I dont feel like there was a lack of preperation (with the exception of Plax and possibly Chase Blackburn).....

I feel the largest problem came from play calling:

First, there just is no way to excuse the fact that we go away from the run, which we were averaging over 6 yards per carry, inorder to throw risky deep balls.

Second, there were far too many safety blitzes.... we were on what (seemed to be) loose turf which caused Ross alot of problems.... for example on the 70 yard reception to #17 Edwards; Ross bit on a double move but when usually he would be able to recover, the foot he planted sliped out. Go back and watch the play and you will see that a sizable chunk of turf goes flying as he stumbles. On almost every big play there was no safety over the top..... if we continue this against the cowboys, TO and RW are going to have a field day  

The thing is we could have EASILY won the game on monday night. It was even 14-17 at the beginning of the 3rd quarter (even after all of he mistakes we made in the first half) AND it was still 14-20 at the beggining of the 4th quarter..... but instead of sticking with what we do best we decided to roll the dice on risky passes.... and instead of respecting Edwards and giving him the proper double team he deserved.... we repeatedly left Ross one on one..... then just to show how inept the play calling was, right when we should have abandoned the run because we were multiple scores back, that is when we began to run the most.

does anyone disagree? Did anyone see a different game because I just dont understant how I see this but coaches who are payed MILLIONS cannot.

October 15, 2008 1:46 PM
 

ERICHONIUS said:

and i apologize for my many grammar and typing errors

October 15, 2008 1:49 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

I second erichonius... I posted several times yesterday, we need to pressure up the middle, use some twists, overload and dont gave them a shot. Dont continue to leave our guys out on an island while the opponent has a protection scheme set up to pick up our safety and corner blitzes... they will get it down, i know it

October 15, 2008 2:08 PM
 

boooojaaaa said:

It apeared to me plex was playing soft.

October 15, 2008 2:08 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

the grieving process is now complete:  shock, anger, fear, silver lining.

October 15, 2008 2:11 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Erichonious, yeah, that wasn't the best-coached game of all time. Not quite as bad as the game against the Vikings last year, but I don't understand why they didn't come out and run after the second half kickoff and keep running until it had been stopped (with, of course, play action passes thrown into the mix).

That would have done three things: Better protected Eli because that monster would have had to stay home to clog the middle; eaten time so the Giants' defense wouldn't have been gassed by the fourth quarter, which they surely were; and, most important, they probably would have WON the game.

As for coverage over the top by the safeties, I think Spags felt that since the front seven wasn't stopping the run that he had to have them available for run support rather than play deep. But if Coughlin had been brilliant at halftime he'd have said, "No, let's run the ball in the second half, use up time and avoid wearing down our guys, and then double up on Edwards so we force them to try to win without big plays". That would have been much sounder strategy.

You're right, it was not a night that the coaches covered themselves in glory.

October 15, 2008 2:13 PM
 

ERICHONIUS said:

@Sean

"We must become more clever on defense and get to the quarterback in whatever ways possible"

I also must disagree with this statement.... there are a lot of defenses that can remain efficient even when not able to get to the QB... I believe that we could be one of these teams. Spags has to come to the realization that Blitzing can also expose a secondary and that when a team expects our blitzes (which is not extremely hard since they are quite frequent) they can exploit that to their offense's advantage which we (Giants Fans) became very familiar with on monday.

October 15, 2008 2:17 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Okay, I hope we're ready to move on. You can be sure that after watching film yesterday the coaches saw lots of adjustments that have to be made and are now implementing those. The players are being shown what they did wrong and then oriented toward Sunday and the Niners. We should take the same approach.

So, will we see Hixon get some of Toomer's snaps? He should. Will we see Terrell Thomas on the field? I hope so. Will we see a better use of the ground game (that I am pretty sure SF can't stop unless they bring 9 in the box, allowing Eli to go up top at will) to pound the opponent and rest the defense? Will we see a Goff sighting? That would be nice.

October 15, 2008 2:19 PM
 

Dan Murphy said:

ERICHONIUS,

I agree on Blackburn.  He looked completely lost out there.  I hope this Pierce injury won't linger all season.

October 15, 2008 2:24 PM
 

ERICHONIUS said:

to clarify I am not saying that we stop blitzing altogether but I am sugesting that when the blitzes are failing to reach the QB we can mix it up a little more and see if we cant catch them by suprise after they let their guard down a little

October 15, 2008 2:25 PM
 

ERICHONIUS said:

@ Dan Murphy

Yeah the last play Blackburn was in the game (at MLB) he audibled and it almost resulted in another big play. Im not sure I remember but I think he audibled into an overload blitz.... it is my belief he tries to be like AP a little too much and he overwhelms himself with the thinking game

October 15, 2008 2:34 PM
 

Dan Murphy said:

Right on, ERIC.

In response to the "more clever on defense" comment, I think that we do need to be more clever.  When you have corners who arent naturally inclined to blitz, you have to overcome that with strategy and cleverness.  I haven't heard many talk about the absence of Gibril lately but he was a great natural-blitzing safety.  We have to disguise our blitz packages more and bring different people.  Do you remember when, in the Super Bowl, Kiwaka Mitchell went to the line, completely turned around like he was dropping back into coverage and the blasted right up the middle to put Brady down.  That is the kind of things that were not there on Monday.  We showed our cards almost every time that we were blitzing and they picked it up rather easily.  Ergo, we need to be more clever.

October 15, 2008 2:43 PM
 

wr45171 said:

Great article dan...

I think you more than covered all of the aspects that we blew up on...we looked terrible in almost every aspect of the game...  I couldnt agree more about blackburn...I love the way he plays the game (non-stop) but he simply looked lost out there.   We didnt seem to get any push from any of our DL....they seemed to just get whooped all night....  I am one that also thinks this should have a positive effect...lets move on now that the crying is over...

GO BIG BLUE!1

October 15, 2008 2:49 PM
 

Krow said:

While I agree that we were predictable on our blitz packages.. the sad fact still remains that we do not have one LB who is a threat to get a sack.  I'd rather stunt a 5 man line.

October 15, 2008 2:52 PM
 

wr45171 said:

Krow...we def need some help at LB... When pierce is sitting...we dont have one guy that can step up...

October 15, 2008 2:58 PM
 

norm said:

Dan,

I'm not so sure the problem was so much that the Giants were telegraphing their blitzes on Monday.

Rather, I think Cleveland was operating under the assumption that Spags would dial up a blitz on pretty much every down. So the Browns kept 7-8 blockers back for most of the game. They also limited their backs and TE to very short routes.  In short, Anderson  never really had to guess when the blitz was coming because the Browns had game-planned for it more or less coming all the time.

Spags is a bright guy. I'm confident that this game will cure him of getting too over-reliant on the safety blitz.  

October 15, 2008 3:00 PM
 

RI giantsfan said:

Great Article...

Does anyone feel that every time we blitz, we dont get there....I feel that when we actually blitz, teams pick it up quickly and get blockers to our guys, I rarely see any of our Cb or S coming free anymore..

I remember last yr when we blitz, opposing QB were running scared, now they have time to actually sit back a little.

October 15, 2008 3:08 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

RI giantsfan - its called "film study."  Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ...

As with anything else in life, the more you see of something/someone, the better you understand it.  Its not surprising that teams are perhaps "catching up" with Spags a little.

Interesting SI piece on the best and worst places in the NFL.  Gmen fans, along with Iggles, Steelers and Hawks fan ranked themselves high on the fan IQ portion.

October 15, 2008 3:31 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

October 15, 2008 3:32 PM
 

RI giantsfan said:

Real Bryan -

I totally understand film study...but we haven't been able to mix anything up a little? If I'm watching the games correctly, it seems as if pierce, johnson etc aren't hitting holes with force, kind of half assing there way through the line. I haven't really seen someone come flying through with any intensity. Just making a note of it...

October 15, 2008 3:36 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

Tyree off the Pup list. They have 3 weeks to decide what to do with him.

www.northjersey.com/.../Giants_notebook_Tyree_off_PUP.html

October 15, 2008 3:37 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Let's not fall in love with Kawika Mitchell. He was a solid linebacker, nothing more. Clark is probably about as good (but playing SAM instead of WILL and therefore having different responsibilities). And while Gibril Wilson was a really fine player, given the opportunity to get enough snaps right now I think Phillips will be as good, or better, by the latter part of the season. He will be FAR better by next year.

Spags needs to get Phillips in a position where against maximum protection he can play that center fielder kind of safety and make teams pay for only sending out three receivers and holding everyone back.

October 15, 2008 3:51 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

ff55 - are you impressed with what you see of Phillips so far?  I know its early and he hasn't played a ton, and I would never pass a judgment this early, but I feel like he's been a little oversold and underdelivered.

October 15, 2008 3:56 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

Too late to trade Moss; does Tyree go to IR or get released?

October 15, 2008 3:58 PM
 

RI giantsfan said:

cannot release Tyree, he is way too valuable on ST and we desperately need help there. Plus if anyone goes down we know he can step in and play WR. Moss provides us with virtually nothing right now with no ST help. I think releasing Tyree would be a big mistake, him and hixon are strong players covering and returning kicks.

October 15, 2008 4:05 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

I agree with RI - I cut Moss way before Tyree.  Moss had one OK game against one of the worst secondaries in the league.  If he was 2 TDs a game good, he would have shown up in Cleveland.

October 15, 2008 4:08 PM
 

norm said:

One other point regarding the pass rush:

I know I've been pretty critical of Kiwi's play so far. But in all fairness, he's been given a pretty tough task. After a year at LB, he's asked to switch back to DE at a moment's notice and forced to refamiliarize himself with the technique required of that position while facing off against the likes of Chris Samuels, Orlando Pace, Levi Jones, Walter Jones, and Joe Thomas.

That's a pretty gruesome murderer's row right there (especially Joe Thomas who in just his second year has already established himself as one of the top 2-3 LTs in the NFL. That guy just mauled Kiwi on Monday) I expect we will see improved play from Kiwi as the season progresses. And I also predict a big day for him against Flozell - who seems to have lost a step and should have a hard time dealing with Kiwi's speed.  

October 15, 2008 4:10 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Bryan, I like his aggressiveness and closing speed. He has not done great on plays on the ball that were there to be made, but that's the kind of thing that rookies do. He also looks a bit hesitant on some plays but I think that is only overcome by playing, not by practice.

Frankly, I don't think highly enough of Butler and Johnson that I would let this kid sit on the bench for even part of the game. He should be the anchor back there. Let him make some mistakes and learn from them so when the going gets rough he has enough experience that he can play the position.

My bottom line assessment is that, as I said about Eli last year, he has all the tools so should be excellent. In his case it is speed, size, range, soft hands, natural aggressiveness, and intelligence. That's what makes great NFL safeties. I think he will become one.

On the other hand, I was pumping for Wilkinson, so what do I know?

October 15, 2008 4:11 PM
 

norm said:

Moss is not getting cut when Tyree returns.

The Giants will be saying buh-bye to Carney, instead. Or possibly Droughns.

October 15, 2008 4:13 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

ff55 - I'm a little concerned about you... KP is both aggressive and hesitant?  That seems a little unlikely.

Certainly his mistakes could be rookie mistakes and rookie hesitance.  But I don't see the crushing blows, the scary demeanor and dominance in the middle that everyone predicted.  Certainly not to the point that he would be starting by midseason as some predicted.  Not off of pure talent or play anyway.  

Now, I'm not arguing taht he's nto better than what is out there, just that he's not hte dominating Shawn Taylor/Brian Dawkins/pick a Safety clone he was sold to me as oh about 3 months ago.

October 15, 2008 4:15 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

norm, that is an excellent point in regard to Kiwi. Of course, it points out why Osi went to the Pro Bowl last year. The Right Defensive End is usually going against the best O-lineman on the opposition. If he can get to the quarterback despite that then he is doing a heckuva job. Kiwi will get his share of sacks this season, but anyone claiming that he is a "more natural" DE than Osi should be rethinking that claim.

It is also because of that issue that I have been advocating since Osi's injury that Spags put Wilkinson in the WILL position and have him rush off the edge because it was critical to force the O-line to have to deal with two speed guys on that side in order to open up some lanes in the middle. It hasn't worked out that way, but I'm still not sure why the scheme didn't go in that direction. I think Wilkinson could have been a big help to the pass rush. Now we'll probably never know because by the time he's healthy again Kehl will have probably cemented the position and Wilk will be riding the pine for another season, and then probably be gone next year. I still think he's a player if used properly and may become a stud on a 3-4 defense where his strengths will be utilized and his weakness against the run right at him hidden.

October 15, 2008 4:20 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Bryan, you know perfectly well what I meant. The kid IS aggressive. He just isn't sure where to use it because he is having a bit of trouble getting into the flow since he isn't out there all the time.

And I will be so bold as to say that he will become exactly what you are comparing him to: a Dawkins, Reed, Taylor type. None of those guys burned up the league as rookies either.

October 15, 2008 4:24 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

One thought on the D.  Neither Washington, St Louis nor Seattle stressed the back 4 one little bit so it is hard to take away anything -- positive or negative -- from those 3 games.

Cleveland and Cincy both moved the ball well in the air.  Most of the damage was done with short passes -- largely slant patterns underneath the backers.  

I haven't seen enough stressed put on Phillips yet to declare him one way or the other.

Webster has been solid so far this season.  Ross got burned badly on that bomb exactly the way an offense draws it up -- short pass short pass short pass - short route move and go - he bit and got burned.  The TD was a cramp and fall - what can you say about that?

Dockery has managed to look bad even in the god games so we ought to hope for Thomas.

As between Johnson and Butler, hard to know which one to wish for but Butler's bicep injury may make the point moot.

October 15, 2008 4:24 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

My last offensive point is this:  I think Gilbride (and perhaps Eli) believes this offense can score any time it wants.  Hence, he (they) is willing to fool around for 3 quarters and see what comes of it.  Only in the 4th does he (thye) get serious and start calling a game plan designed to score.  Exhibit A - St Louis - 21 4th Q pts - 14 offense;  Ex.  B - Cincy - late 4th Q touch - OT score; Ex. C - Cleveland - methodical 4th Q drive that should have resulted in a TD with nearly 7 minutes remaining leaving the team within 6.

October 15, 2008 4:28 PM
 

Krow said:

I think it's simply arrogance and hubris.  We won the Superbowl... now we'll change to a long ball offense and win it again... cause we're so smart.

October 15, 2008 4:38 PM
 

Fitz said:

Nice write Up...

One thing I was thinking,Im sure somebody brought this up,,But man With the way the Browns were gettin after Eli Monday.Did we once throw a pass to a Running Back..I mean Gilbride, how about a damn screen pass..Can We ever do a successful one?I know if we get some quick passes to Bradshaw he can make something happen.This team really needs to get the backs involved in the passing game.That would have really helped Monday..

October 15, 2008 4:55 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Stoll- I believe that the Giants gameplan is to dictate to their opponents thegameplan they want to impose (aka hammer BJ and DW, mix in a little PA pass), and because they do it so well it becomes that musch easier as the game goes on. The fact that 7 of the 21 points you are refering to in the 4th quarter of the rams game were on defense, and that fact that the 'methodical' drives against clevland DIDNT result in points makes your point moot

October 15, 2008 4:56 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

we'll return to the run this wek, if for no other reason than to protect Eli

October 15, 2008 4:57 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

excellent point fitz... alot of teams (see NO PHI SF JAX) have made a living doing that.

October 15, 2008 4:58 PM
 

Krow said:

Hate to say ... but we've been trying for literally years to run decent screens and dump passes... all to no avail.  Either the coaches can't teach it... or the players can't do it.

October 15, 2008 5:00 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

Yeah I don't really get this long ball bs either. This team won with running the ball setting up the pass. Passing setting up the run failed in the 2nd half let's hope they get back to the right mentality this week.

October 15, 2008 5:01 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

Krow,

Yeah what we they thinking on that 3rd and long screen pass. That was just plain dumb in my opinion.

October 15, 2008 5:02 PM
 

Krow said:

jcrown... I think screens and such are excellent plays.  But for some reason we just can't get them to work.  I wish I had an idea why... but I can't figure it out.  We have a fine OL... excellent RBs... I don't get it.  However if you look over the last few years it would be hard to find too many that have gotten any significant yardage.  And many QBs live off it.

October 15, 2008 5:08 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

*were they thinking...sorry long day of work.

October 15, 2008 5:08 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

Eli doesn't seem to throw the screen swing or flanker screen passes very well

none of our RB's appear to have great hands

the RB you would expect to be a monster at the screen - Bradshaw - doesn't even play

and I'm guessing none of the RB's sells the screen particularly well

October 15, 2008 5:15 PM
 

Fitz said:

I mean It couldnt be that Eli just cant make those short passes could it? I dont believe that..And when U have three quality backs you know one of them can do it..Bradshaw and Ward more then Jacobs...So Im blaming this one on the Coaches..

How about for once making the RB the number 1 option on a few plays..And Im not talking about a 2 yard bail out throw to Jacobs feet..Draw up a few plays for Bradshaw and Ward everygame and make them the number 1 option..Let some of our skill players make something happen after the catch...Keep these Defense's honest.I believe we probably have the fewest RB receptions in the league.Just give me a few a game thats all..Knowing Gilbride he will prob never change..

October 15, 2008 5:17 PM
 

Krow said:

I know I'm not the only one seeing this... but our inability to execute the simple screen pass baffles me.  And this has been going on for years.

Also... when was the last time you saw a RB get downfield for a pass?

October 15, 2008 5:22 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

Krow,

Since Tiki left we haven't been able to run any screens worth a damn. It used to be a fine play for us, but I think they should just scrap it or maybe try it with Bradshaw our quickest back.

October 15, 2008 5:23 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

I'm sorry but a weapon like Bradshaw should not be left on the bench to rot. Look at teams like Miami getting creative to put their playmakers on the field. The Giants need to come up with something to get their best players on the field. Remember last year we had the same burden getting Tuck, Osi, Strahan, and Kiwi all on the field together. To score only 14 points against a terrible defense like Cleveland is flat out unacceptable especially when you are leaving some of your weapons on the bench. It's like Gilbride is taking swords to a gun fight.

October 15, 2008 5:28 PM
 

Krow said:

jc... I hear ya.  But there has to be more to this than we're getting.  Maybe our offensive sets don't lend themselves to screens... maybe our backs just can't pull it off... or maybe we never practice them.  There's got to be something going on.

October 15, 2008 5:29 PM
 

Krow said:

Oh... before I forget... I had gone to a couple practices up in Albany where I live.  And believe me, they ran a ton of swing passes... a ton.  Yet this year you can count on 1 hand how many we've thrown.  That's another thing I don't get either.  

October 15, 2008 5:31 PM
 

bearcat said:

Krow:  You forget about somebody called Tiki Barber.  He was murder on short dumps...

But that was then.  

They've tried forcing screens to BJ who just doesn't have the hands.  They seem reluctant to trust Bradshaw with much responsibility just yet.   So it's Ward who's the logical weapon.  Beats me why they don't try more dumps to him.

I'd also suggest short dumps to Hixon and Smith with Plax out in front of them could be a very productive  formula.  Both have the sort of quickness to break something.

On the long stuff.  I just have a feeling that it's as much Eli feeling his oats as anything.  

October 15, 2008 5:32 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

aha, jcrown finally made the critical point regarding the screen. In fact, Eli DID execute screen passes just fine when Tiki was there in his first two years. It certainly isn't that Eli can't deliver that pass. And most of the O-line are the same players, so it isn't them who is causing the failure because Tiki used to take some of those screens a long, long, way.

So it is either that the running backs can't make the play or that the coaches don't coach it or want to use it. I cannot believe that Bradshaw and Ward can't run screens, although Jacobs doesn't seem to have the knack. So that would lead you to believe that Coughlin and Gilbride for whatever reason don't want to use them. While that makes absolutely no sense to me, there must be some kind of logic involved (at least one would hope so).

October 15, 2008 5:33 PM
 

Fitz said:

Well atleast we are all agreeing on Why the hell arent the RB's involved in the passing game more.

One thing that we have not seen much in the gilbride era, is he does not always use his skill players correctly..

I mean for one he is not Using Bradshaw who thrives on making something happen with the ball in his hands..In three years he has not found anything to do with Moss..Hey how about a Wr Screen or a few reverses..Same with Manningham so far..We gotta let our skill guys do the work.Eli cant do everything..WE gotta start getting some more out of the talent we have on Offense..I would love to start seeing some bigger plays in the open field.Give these guys a chance, let them do something with the ball in their hands... Damn Killdrive..

October 15, 2008 5:36 PM
 

Krow said:

ff55... If I were to guess I'd say they just don't have the time to work on it.  That they spend the practice hours on other areas deemed more important.  But it kills me to see how some backs feast on that play.

October 15, 2008 5:39 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

The failure to use Bradshaw is exactly what they did last season. If it hadn't been for injuries Boss, Bradshaw and perhaps even Smith would not have played. Each was a fundamental contributor to getting the Lombardi Trophy.

This season I will be watching to see if Bradshaw gets used a lot more; and if Thomas, Phillips, Kehl, Goff and even Manningham get their shot. It is impossible to criticize Coughlin after he brought home a Super Bowl win and got this team to buy into his "It's about the team" philosophy, but these guys are way too conservative in their use of personnel.

October 15, 2008 5:40 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

Maybe we should try a screen with a 4 Wr set to spread out the Defense so there is more room up the middle for the back. Just an idea. Either that or