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It May Be Too Early to Crucify Plaxico Burress

I think Eric Kennedy of Big Blue Interactive put it best when he said "Thank God the Giants won it all last year because had they not, and the Giants were 11-1 right now with this Plaxico [Burress] mess going on, I would really think the Gods were out to get us as Giants fans. The more this whole thing sinks in, the more sickened I feel about it."

It's amazing how things can change in the blink of an eye. One mistake - one foolish mistake - now has Burress facing up to 15-years in prison and possibly the end of his NFL career.

Sure, various winds are still swirling and this whole mess is far from settled, but it does not look good for one of the Super Bowl XLII heroes. And honestly, that's depressing as a Giants' fan.

What Burress did was as boneheaded as it gets and he deserves some sort of punishment, but I don't think throwing the book at him, as the "honorable" Mayor Michael Bloomberg suggested, is the answer.

"If we don't prosecute [him] to the fullest extent of the law, I don't know who on Earth we would," Bloomberg said. "It makes a sham, a mockery of the law. And it's pretty hard to argue the guy didn't have a gun and that it wasn't loaded. You've got bullet holes in and out to show that it was there."

Less than a week ago, Burress' teammate Steve Smith was robbed at gunpoint. Less than a year ago, his former teammate Gibril Wilson was also robbed at gunpoint. And within the last year and a half, we've seen two other NFL athletes murdered -- Sean Taylor and Darrent Williams - while a third, Richard Collier, will be paralyzed for the rest of his life.

Say what you want about Burress' attitude problem and Giants-related incidents, but how can anyone justify punishing him to the fullest extent of the law when he was merely taking an action to protect himself.

I know, I know ... we're going to hear all about how he had time to get a pistol permit and how he could have killed someone else, but he didn't. He made the mistake of not having a permit and that's a big no-no, but does that mean he had no legitimate right to protect himself?

Again, Burress should be punished ... I cannot possibly express that enough. But sending him to prison for doing nothing more than injuring himself is preposterous.

These athletes do little more than any other party-goers, but are constantly faced with harsher dangers just because of who they are and what they do. And are they given additional protection? Do police agencies make sure they're constantly protected? Does the NFL offer them personal bodyguards?

The answer is no ... these athletes are left to fend for themselves, and then when they do, they're criticized and ridiculed.

Society has created messes like these, and it's the murderers and violent thieves that should be made an example of ... not the athletes. A perfect example would be Venjah Hunte, one of the accused murderers in the Sean Taylor case.

Hunte agreed to a plea-deal and is currently facing 29-years in prison ... for murder. Meanwhile, Burress is looking at up to 15-years in prison (only 14-year less) for what? Wounding himself accidentally at a nightclub.

These athletes are sitting ducks, who are systematically being picked off, and now we're going to punish them for attempting to protect themselves ... brilliant.

Meanwhile, sick people like Adam Jones and Michael Vick constantly get (or will get) second, third and fourth chances.

And don't even get me started on Ray Lewis or O.J. Simpson ...

Bottom line: All of these punishments should be consistent. It's unfair to let an athlete off simply because he's an athlete, and it's unfair to make an example of an athlete simply because they're in the public's eye.

If an athlete protecting himself is really that much of a concern, then some agency should step up and make sure they're not going to be murdered simply for trying to live their lives.

Allowing Vick to slaughter dogs in horror movie-like fashion, only to serve a minimum amount of time does not really set an example. Nor does allowing Adam "Pacman" Jones to basically do whatever he wants with no consequences.

As for Burress, he should be in some trouble, but seeing more prison time than Vick, Jones, Lewis and Simpson combined doesn't seem very justified or acceptable, in my humble opinion.

Comments

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The Original G Man said:

Anyone going to check out the new Holiday movie about Plax?

img201.imageshack.us/.../aplaxmasstoryyg9.png

December 2, 2008 10:56 AM
 

Dan Benton said:

Please try to keep this away from politics as much as possible. I know that may be difficult given the nature of the subject, but try to keep it was close to the Burress story and football as possible.

And before I get slammed, be sure to read the entire piece to understand where i am going with it.

December 2, 2008 10:56 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Dan, well said. I'm reposting this from the previous thread. I don't consider it political. My previous post there might be viewed as somewhat political, but this whole thing goes way beyond football. It is exposing myriad hypocrises that infect our entire society but seem at this point to be particularly embedded in in the person of Little Mike (I have previously designated Danny Snyder as "Little Danny" as I imagine him in short pants while calling for his mommy when he doesn't get his way, but given my current feelings about Bloomberg and his "challenged" stature, I believe "Little Mike" is now an appropriate appelation for this mean-spirited Napoleon whose ego is unbounded).

fanfor55years said:

Jim, good point. I'd like to think I would have the exact same reaction. Those guys may not be my favorite athletes, but they are not thugs and bad guys.

Don't get me wrong. I am in favor of strong gun laws, and I think Plax should pay a severe price for what he did. In fact, I am in favor of severe sentences when a serious felony is committed and the perpetrator carried a gun even if it wasn't used in the commission of the crime (because the carrying of the gun means that a person who has defined himself as a criminal by the commission of that crime MIGHT have intended to use a gun if necessary).

But this is a case where the alleged criminal committed no criminal act except for the carrying of a gun without a permit, and the clearly accidental discharge of that gun (with no one hurt). The charged "perpetrator" is a well-known athlete who certainly appears not to be a danger to society and would seem to be someone who, with appropriate treatment, counseling, and monitoring would reasonably be expected to never engage in the same behavior again. And his commission of this crime would allow the City of New York to allow him to plead down to a lesser charge; suspend a sentence; put him on probation that, if violated, could result in a jail sentence; extract a big fine; and require significant community service for a number of years acting as a spokesman for the NYC weapons laws and contributing real time and money to a youth football program intended to get kids in tough neighborhoods into the game and the tutoring and academic and life counseling that would be associated with that program.

By which approach is justice best served? I'm not really sure that the answer should depend upon political orientation. I think society's interests are best served by making use of this fool's talents rather than by locking him away.

I didn't want to get into deep political discussions here on Giants101, but I have been astonished by what appears to me to be a general unwillingness to take a considered view of this situation and really think about the implications of what is going on. This is way, way, way, beyond football at this point.

Whatever happens in this situation, the lasting impression I will keep is Bloomberg practically sneering as he condemns this kid and says throw the book at him before knowing all the facts just a few weeks after saying people should wait to hear the facts when a cop kills a man who was swinging a freaking chair at him.

December 2, 2008 10:54 AM  

December 2, 2008 11:09 AM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

reposted from last thread:

Jim, the legal system should not start getting into hypotheticals and "what ifs"  He is charged with carrying an illegal weapon, not for the possibility of hurting someone else.  

There are two counts, the first is a fire arm with intent to use (which will likely be thrown out once the evidence is given)  The second is simply possesion of an illegal firearm.  He will be found guilty of that and nothing more.

I hate when these "what ifs" and hypotheticals start getting tossed around.  Us young guys have a saying "If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle"  There is no reason to start saying stuff like "what happened if the bullet went through the floor and shot someone downstairs" or "what if the bullet bounced off the wall and into an innocent bystander" etc.  It luckily didnt happen, so he obvioiusly wont be in trouble for it.

December 2, 2008 11:11 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Reposting this because I would actually like to see reactions to my contention that the Giants would still be okay without AP (even though I am convinced that should not be the case, you never know with Goodell).

fanfor55years said:

If the various people involved in this incident (cops, DA, Mayor's Office) charge Pierce with anything then they're trying to make a reputation on the carcass of an innocent man.

AP panicked, as would many others in the same circumstances. It appears he did absolutely nothing wrong, has cooperated fully in the investigation of the incident, and unless someone somewhere in the criminal justice/political chain has a personal problem with something he will, at most, be charged with a misdemeanor and get a fine. And if Goodell suspends him he's an a-hole. He has allowed players who have done things a hundred times worse get on the field, so a suspension would only be for purposes of courting favor with Bloomberg or based upon some other agenda that I prefer not to consider.

Let me point out, though, that even if AP were to be suspended for a game or two, I would not expect that to derail this team. They'd go with Blackburn at MIKE and Kehl and Wilkinson at WILL and would hardly miss a beat. Pierce is a great defensive quarterback, and he has played really well this season, but they can stop the run with Blackburn and one of those other guys in there and the passes to the tight ends have been largely covered by the safeties this season with AP still having some trouble getting back deep in the center zone.

So Pierce should not face any punishment, but as long as he isn't hit with the kind of suspension that Goodell knows would be immediately challenged by both the Giants and the NFLPA, the Giants will be okay.

And as usual, the press covers itself in crap. It isn't enough to try to destroy a young man who has committed some obvious errors and may have to pay a big, big price for his stupidity and sense that rules don't apply to him. No, they have to also go after Pierce for the possible titillation of their readers and, even more revolting IMO, drag Bradshaw into this when the more glare they can shine on a kid who apparently did nothing wrong (is it bad judgment for a young player to go to a perfectly safe nightclub with the Captain of his team and one of the most respected guys in the locker room?) the more harm they can do him with Goodell and the authorities in Virginia.

You could write a terrific novel based on this situation. The depths of human cupidity and the dark nature of a lot of people's souls are on display for our enjoyment as we watch and make our snide comments while a troubled, very talented, young man who is not a criminal is probably going to pay a severe price for his stupid behavior so the grotesques who deem themselves the keepers of society can work out their own personal psycho-dramas and power trips.

Plaxico Burress is a fool. He's a spoiled child who took his blessings for granted. He is a pampered jerk who thought he didn't need to follow anyone's rules. He endangered people around him. He is no model for anyone to follow. But he is also a tragic figure caught in a spider's web of people's ambitions and desire to make an example of him for no particularly good reason. He deserves sympathy more than contempt.

If I were his employer he would be treated a lot better than what the reporters are claiming will be the way he gets treated by the Giants. But I suspect they don't know what they're talking about. I will be disappointed if the Giants don't find a way to help him (starting with allowing him to collect that last $1MM he's owed for his signing bonus so he can afford Brafman and a shrink) and show him a path back to the NFL.

And before I ask this question, let me make it clear that I am a 61-year-old caucasian, a member of "the Establishment", who has never been in trouble with the law (at least not since the FBI was tracking me when I was a student radical back in the Vietnam War era and being an enemy of Nixon was a mark of distinction) and wouldn't know what to do with a .40 caliber gun if I saw one.

How would all of you, and Mike Bloomberg, and the cops, and the DA, be reacting if it had been Eli Manning who shot himself in the leg? No, I'm not talking racism, at least the overt kind. But I am talking stereotypes and the kind of psychological constructs that we all have in our heads. But would Bloomberg have been up on his soapbox practically convicting this guy yesterday if that had been Eli, or Brett Favre (a more likely possessor of a hand-gun who might actually carry one around for protection in the city where someone shot John Lennon)? Would most of you, and all of the press, be so sure that the Giants would cut all ties with the player? Think about it. Think hard.

December 2, 2008 10:09 AM

December 2, 2008 11:17 AM
 

Samardzija said:

I just love the hypocrisy of Major Bloomberg. Black athletes break the law=Slam the door

White politicians break the law=Sweep it under the rug.

Not trying to get racist and I hope the debate doesn't turn that way, but it is what it is.

December 2, 2008 11:20 AM
 

Dan Benton said:

Guys - I'm with you on the hypothetical's.

What if this, what if that.

My reply earlier today when someone said "what if he hurt someone" was (as extreme as it may be) "what if a some insane person came in firing an AK47 and Plax had shot him dead?"

Bottom line: Plax should see punishment for not having a permit and it shouldn't be any more than Lewis, Pacman, Simpson or Vick.

December 2, 2008 11:21 AM
 

Terrence T said:

Dan...OJ is innocent! lol. anyway you make some very good points. the whole thing is very dishearting! love the comparison you made with adam jones. the man does whatever he wants and yet nothing gets done. plax carries a gun which is a no no in a public place and he should be punished and he shot himself by accident. ok...why 3yrs in prison for that? didnt pac man fire his gun in Las Vegas? im not remembering. and whatever happened to the good boy marvin harrison thing? its a lil weird but plax shouldnt get time in jail for that. i do believe he will be suspended for the rest of the season though....i dont know. i try to forget about it cuz its just makes me sick! why this....why now! very upset about the whole thing.

also another good point bout Ray Lewis...he literally got away with murder! now hes the beloved MLB in the league...i love the guy but come on. the whole system is messed up.

December 2, 2008 11:22 AM
 

rich said:

why is that we never hear of nfl athletes getting robbed at gunpoint or shot when they're out with  their children at the movies,  or maybe at a restaurant with their wife?

maybe these nfl players should use just a small  portion of their brains and not put themselves in harms way by  hanging out at shady places with  shady individuals.

this whole "protecting themselves" argument doesnt hold much water with me.

as far as the jail time situation  goes...i do agree to an extent. i dont know if plax has any criminal  priors. assuming he doesnt, 3.5 years is a bit much.

December 2, 2008 11:25 AM
 

Dan Benton said:

TT - Forgot about Harrison! Forgot about Tank Johnson as well.

Should have added both of them.

December 2, 2008 11:25 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

One, last, political comment. As many of you know, I have been pretty good at predicting football outcomes. Well, in thinking about this whole situation with Plax I am going to say that I believe that Bloomberg may have just screwed the pooch and is now a lot less likely to get re-elected.

The people around the city will know that Little Mike just treated a black celebrity like a hardened criminal for committing an act that was clearly accidental not long after he treated a rookie cop who killed a mentally-disturbed fellow who was swinging a chair as an object of sympathy. Little Mike just lost a nice percentage of the minority vote in the City. I think it may well be enough to overcome what will be his attempt to purchase re-election by buying off neighborhoods with contributions from his foundation.

Now THAT would be justice served.

December 2, 2008 11:26 AM
 

Mike V said:

Nicely said Dan.  I completely forgot about Gibril getting robbed.  Also, even though it wasn't under Goodell - don't forget about Leonard Little.

FF55 - I hope to hell you are right about Bloomberg.  My brother said the same thing yesterday.

Rich - that's not fair at all.  Read the newest ESPN Magazine issue.  There is a whole feature that interviews about 8 NFL players and the security measures they take.  Last year (I believe), invaders broke into Dunta Robinson's house while he was home, with his family, tied him up, robbed him, and told him that since he was a good player, they would let him live.

December 2, 2008 11:32 AM
 

Terrence T said:

yup Dan...the only one who lost it all and yet was ruled innocent was OJ...he lost it all but then again that is something to talk about at another time....

how long was tank suspended for? 4 games? and harrison wasnt even suspended or fined if i remember correctly! it was as if that whole thing was swept under the rug. again im for plax gettin repramanded but when they are talkin prison...up to 15 yrs! i mean come  on. thats just crazy. like i always say IF is the biggest 2 letter word and the what ifs are just crazy...what if Bush never served in office...what if scott norword made the kick in the super bowl against the giants....what if the knicks could actually beat Michael Jordans,(who was the greatest player ever to lace em up!) bulls.... you can really make yourself go crazy with the what if talks

December 2, 2008 11:34 AM
 

Jim Stoll said:

The answer is at once simple and impoossible:  outlaw guns entirely so people like you me and Plax can never have them, then really hammer the bad guys.

Mike Force, are you with me bros?

December 2, 2008 11:35 AM
 

rich said:

mike, im not saying that crimes are NEVER comitted against professional  athletes just because they're professional athletes. im saying that i see a LOT of situations where guys put themselves in totally assinine situations just for the sake of having a good time.

and not to start a whole different debate...but try googling nfl/nba players and gangs. there's a reason  why certain players need extra protection.

December 2, 2008 11:38 AM
 

Terrence T said:

Mike V...i didnt even hear that! are you serious! you cant really blame some of these atheletes and stars for takin the xtra measurement for safety! lets face it...its not like you and me carrying guns for safety. assuming you and me are not in any kinda lime light like these atheletes and stars. i guess they can be a lil over anxious and a lil scared at times. you cant trust anyone not even the body gaurds at times. i dont blame them

December 2, 2008 11:38 AM
 

Mike Force said:

What are you gonna hammer the bad guys with--words?

December 2, 2008 11:40 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Wow, what is clearly discernible from the discussion of the last few days is that all shapes and sizes of people of broadly divergent political opinions can all come together in passionate love of the New York Football Giants. Given everything else happening in the world these days, we should all be grateful for the refuge this team, and this site, affords us.

And Jim's 15-1 is still alive!!!

December 2, 2008 11:45 AM
 

NYGs in AUS said:

From an outsider looking in, and not as a giants fan for a second, I can understand the press's responsibilites to be as critical and as out of proportion as possible to have people read articles, it also serves to send a message to the youth. Plax is an idiot. Carrying a gun is stupid and will carry an extreme punishment, but that mayor seems as thick as he is fair if he jumps down someones throat before a trial. Sure he can express his anger at carrying a gun etc but to pick out one person and say this man needs the full extent of the law, as if some others don't then he is causing friction and unnecessary judgements before a court can.

I really hope Plax does get special consideration, because he is a special consideration. He does need to be punished beacuse if he wanted protection, I'm sure he could hire a bodyguard, and his carrying of a loaded weapon is a terrible example to the youth, but the laws were made to prevent crime, and I don't believe throwing the book at him serves that purpose.

December 2, 2008 11:47 AM
 

The Original G Man said:

AP would have been better served had he left the gun at The Latin Quarter .... but taken the canoli instead.

December 2, 2008 11:47 AM
 

rich said:

lol

December 2, 2008 11:50 AM
 

xlaurax said:

I just want to give a heads up to the "honorable" Mike Bloomberg...Americas criminal justioce system is ALREADY a sham, a joke, a mockery. There are different standards of law for different levels of income and power. Apparently Mike's been living under a rock. Personally, I hope he gets the same punishment that we would afford to Mike himself...in other words, slap his wrist and let him walk.

December 2, 2008 11:50 AM
 

Mike V said:

Original G - hahaha, classic line.  Nicely done.

Terence - here's the story about Dunta Robinson.  Also, at the end of the story, you can click on the next athlete to read all of them.

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

Scary stuff man.

December 2, 2008 11:51 AM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Dan - one of the problems with your comparision, with all the comparisons to other players, really, is that you pretend that or ignore the fact that laws differ around the country.

If Plax commits his crime (and he broke the law, so its a crime) in Vegas, or the Poconos or 100 other places where guns and gun play aren't a concern, its probably not an issue, or not as much of an issue.

But NY has a gun problem.  Their response is to outlaw the carrying of UNLICENSED UNREGISTERED guns.  No one, not the NFL, not NY, is saying Plax can't protect himself.  No one is saying he can't carry a gun.  They are saying that to carry, you must fill out form X so that only criminals are carrying guns and we use this law against them.  He didn't follow the rules, as he hasn't been following the rules for his entire tenure as a Giant.  He just finally had a really bad outcome.

December 2, 2008 11:53 AM
 

NYGs in AUS said:

I agree about outlawing guns entirely, but americas perceived love of the gun isn't something that is about to go away.

In Australia it took a terrible incident at Port Arthur for gun laws to be changed (australia had a similar love of guns) and it has been extremely beneficial - every gun was bought by the government and destroyed unless you wanted to apply for a license, which is very hard to justify. Tthe statistics for gun crime has dramatically fallen over the past ten years because guns are so so hard to come by. Now I don't think this plax problem will change any laws, and it is good to see NY with such strong laws, but why doesn't the rest of the country follow them?

over in the UK cops don't even carry guns....

December 2, 2008 11:54 AM
 

NYGs in AUS said:

sorry I shouldn't get too political on here, I'm back to being a giants fan hoping dallas missed the playoffs.

December 2, 2008 11:55 AM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Plax is in trouble, not because the NFL is going to kick him out or suspend him for life, but because, in NY, his crime requires a 3 year sentence, and he has a number of charges against him.  Its the law that threatens his career, not the NFL.  

Complaining about Pac Man is almost irrelevant.  I doubt the NFL wouldn't give Plax more chances than Pac Man.  But complaining that Vegas' laws differ from NY laws is just silly.  Two different places, two different value systems.  Two different solutions.

Now, I think Pac Man should come under harsher penalties, both from the NFL and the law, but that doesn't mean Plax should walk.

December 2, 2008 11:57 AM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

NYG's - outlawing guns will never happen.  You obviously haven't heard of the Heller case, where the Supreme Court said reasonable controls on guns are OK, but that citizens have a 2nd amendment right to own reasonable firearms.

Supreme Court case controls the entire nation and pretty much eliminated any chance of what your propose, at least for 40 years.  And the SC ruling followed a number of circuit courts that had found the same way.

December 2, 2008 11:59 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

So speaking of Dallas, what has to happen for them to miss the playoffs? I haven't been following the wild card race so don't really know.

I assume they're in big trouble if they lose to the Steelers and then we beat them in Dallas, but could they still sneak in with a 10-6 record? What would have to happen for them to miss out (an outcome that would make all of us quite happy)? If they beat the Steelers are they in good shape?

I'm sure someone on this site knows all the ins-and-outs of the playoff picture. Please fill us in.

December 2, 2008 12:03 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

And Dan, presenting 5 cases or 6 cases or 10 cases where a sports star is robbed is fine and nice and great.  But it happens to 100s, literally 100s or 1,000s of people every day WHO AREN'T sports stars.

Yes, sports stars are more recognizable.  But if you aren't flauting $1,000, aren't wearing real expensive jewelry, guess what, you aren't as likely a target.  Most of these guys get VIP areas so they dont' even have to mingle with commoners.  They can party wti hthe rich and elite, go to their limo and go home.  Are they at risk, sure, but who isn't?  Commoners get mugged all the time.

December 2, 2008 12:05 PM
 

NYGs in AUS said:

I do know the amendment, and I know it wont happen, certainly not after this plax incident when it doesn't happen after several school/college massacres. But personally and this is just my opinion from someone who has visited the states but doesn't live there - they should be banned. I hate that fat mike whoever but bowling for columbine had some powerful stats on gun crime in the US.

December 2, 2008 12:07 PM
 

Mike V said:

FF55 - we need Atlanta and Carolina to basically win out.  If Dallas goes worse than 2-2 (which is certainly not out of the question), I think they are toast.  Especially since they have the hardest sked.  Right now they are 8-4 and on the outside looking in, with the aforementioned Carolina (9-3) and Atlanta (8-4) being ahead of them.

And if they do go 2-2, it would be best if they lost to us and the Eagles, thus worsening their divisional record and their conference record, against teams like Atlanta and Carolina.

And it would be great if they lost to the Steelers, but even if they beat Pittsburgh, it's not the worst thing.

December 2, 2008 12:08 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

NYG's Michael Moore is an artist at twisting stats, and you should know that his works are more propaganda than documentary.  He often cherry picks stats.

And for every anti-gun stat you can put out there, I can put a pro-gun stat out.

December 2, 2008 12:09 PM
 

Terrence T said:

Mike...man that is some crazy stuff! you cant blame these guys...but sad to say a lot of people i feel see a black athelete with tatoos and gotees with a gun asume rite from the jump that they are thugs or in some gang.... notta good thing

December 2, 2008 12:09 PM
 

rich said:

terrence, some people have jobs in law enforcement and actually have facts to back up what they state.

December 2, 2008 12:13 PM
 

NYGs in AUS said:

Its quite hard to start giving the ins and outs but essentially if carolina win 2 more - we could help with one if we wanted -  andTampa wins one more, It will most liekly be a race between atlanta, and dallas (unless washington or chicago or someone has a streak and atlanta and dallas flop)

Now if dallas loses to pit and us. and atl beats st louis or min. Atlanta just has to win one of TB or NO assuming Dallas wins its other two games against phi and balt.

getting the picture?

December 2, 2008 12:14 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

My last comment on this thread about the "Plax and guns" deal.

Bryan, I don't think many are arguing that Plax should be "let off" and not pay a price for violating the law. What I, and many others, are saying is that the penalty should be something other than a 3 1/2 year mandatory sentence and that justice is not served by that outcome. There are ways to avoid it and I hope you are not suggesting a simple "If he did the crime he does the time" approach because that only makes sense if you also think that Joe Bruno and Eliot Spitzer should both now be in prison, that Dick Fuld is headed toward a lengthy sentence, and that Hank Greenberg should never see the light of day again.

NYG in Australia, the reason there will never be a banning of guns in this country is that a majority of people are against that, to say nothing of the Constitutional protection afforded guns. There is a very long tradition of the American people being concerned that any government might become tyrannical, and that they are fully entitled to overthrow such government so can never allow the government a complete monopoly on force. Frankly, in the current era there are much more effective ways to try to topple a government than taking handguns and rifles out into the street to face off against the National Guard and, if necessary, the Army and Air Force. But that's a story for another day.

I'd still like to know how to get the Cowboys out of the playoffs even if they beat the Steelers this week.

December 2, 2008 12:20 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

I think I need somebody with a PhD in Sportsology to explain to me:

1) The NFL playoff possibilities

2) Why Oklahoma might play in the BCS Championship Game.

December 2, 2008 12:20 PM
 

Dan Benton said:

Bryan McCoy - You're going a little too political with this.

I realize laws are different elsewhere, but my comparisons are legitimate.  Murder is murder in every state and Plax is facing more time than Lewis.

And I have not said once that Plax SHOULDN'T be punished. In fact, I said he should be. But it's unjustifiable to punish him more harshly than all the other names mentioned.

As far as "flaunting" their money and stuff around, that's not really for anyone to say is right or wrong. They've worked hard to earn that and they deserve the right to do that if they so choose. No one should judge that.

I work my ass off and I live as big a life as I can because I feel I've earned it. Does that make me more of a target? Yes. But does that make it justifiable to rob me? No. And does it make a potentially robbery my fault? No.

And in your final statement, you said "for every pro-gun argument you have, I have an anti-gun argument."

That may be, but what does it tell you? It tells you it's a wash and in the end, our constitution states we have the right to bear (legally) arms ... to me, that's the end of the story.

December 2, 2008 12:21 PM
 

Dan Benton said:

Fanof55 - Well said, man. That's basically what I was trying to say.

December 2, 2008 12:21 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Mike V and NYG, thanks. I'm a bit slow on this stuff. So are we rooting for the Steelers and the Falcons this weekend? The first is obvious, but what about the second?

December 2, 2008 12:24 PM
 

Mike V said:

FF55 - not only are we rooting for Atlanta because it's bad for Dallas, we are also rooting Atlanta because they are playing the Saints.  I think right now, with the exception of when the Giants play the Panthers in Week 16, we want the NFC South (save the Saints) to win as many games as possible.  I know Tampa plays Carolina on MNF next week, but we need as many wins from the NFC South as possible.

December 2, 2008 12:26 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Original G, another classic. Sportsology. I think that's what my wife would like to give me when I insist I not be disturbed on Sundays.

And what are the chances the Governor of Texas is getting ready to call on the Texas Rangers (the real ones...noit the baseball team) to invade Norman and put the Sooners under arrest for impersonating a champion?

December 2, 2008 12:28 PM
 

bearcat said:

I'd agree with Rich that the "right to protection" absolves people from censure about gunplay.  I come back to a point I made a few threads ago that the team and the league, need to be more proactive about discouraging if not outright restricting gun possession in public by their players.  I don't deny that these guys are often targeted because of their wealth and the prospect that some punk will want fifteen seconds of fame getting into a tussle with a pro athelete.  

But I think condoning the possession of concealed weapons by pro atheletes rachets up the risk that something terrible is going to happen.  Let's face it, a lot of these guys are super-aggessive A-types, many with little education and, alas, too many with poor socialization.  Perhaps most important, they are mostly in their 20s and pretty darn immature.  Like most people in their age group, they are also likely to impair their judgment drinking or otherwise getting high.  In a volitile situation, say a dispute over a girl in a nightclub, or a surly exchange with someone, hell even an unwanted advance by a homosexual, far too many of these guys are capable of lapsing into a violent over-reaction.  Having guns in the mix is just a recipe for tragedy.

I note that during Sunday's Fox panel discussion of the Burress situation, our Michael Strahan said that at Giants camp, the team requires any players who have guns to check them in.   That tells me a couple of things.  Obviously the team recognizes that some of they guys pack weapons.  But more important, it tells me that the Giants at least don't buy into the "need it for my protection" philosophy.   I think the Giants are right.  Apparently, however, the proscription doesn't apply after camp breaks.  In my opinion it should.  In my opinion it should be a league-wide rule against carrying concealed weapons, at least during the season.

I think the risk that the weapons' use will lead to some sort of tragedy (as it did in the Burress case--if not a physical tragedy, certainly we see the potential of a career tragedy) greatly outweighs the protection the player's think they are getting by carrying guns.

An additional element is that these people are role models.  The NFL wants them to be role models.  Their teams want them to be role models.  And many of the players relish being role models.  I think it sets a pathetic image (much like gangsta rappers) to have athletes and frankly any celebrity packing weapons.  (BTW: I admire and respect rap, one of the most of the most awesome American artistic creations since jazz.  I just grimace to see the art perverted with gratuitous attitudes toward violence.)

The time-honored solution for protecting celebrities is to hire body guards.  I know they can be thugs and a-hole, too.  However, I think the league could somehow set up a screening criteria for contracting of body-guard services.  (I wouldn't leave it to individual teams. Philly would hire the Mob; Dallas would hire a Mexican drug cartel).  With the NFL's brand attached to the program, I am confident they can find body-guard services that screen out unsavory body-guard services.  Maybe they don't bat 1000, either, but I take the odds on that system over the cavalier notion that twenty-something-year-old football players should be condoned in carrying concealed weapons in public places.

Having said all that, I don't think Burress should be crucified.  I think jail time would compound the tragedy.  I think ending his career would be needlessly cruel.  I believe the Giants are too classy to cut him off, and I don't expect that to happen.  

December 2, 2008 12:30 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Dan - your talking to a big gun rights guy, so you won't get an argument from me on that point.  Having said that ...

"it's unjustifiable to punish him more harshly than all the other names mentioned."

That's true, then, of every person who gets a mandatory 3-year sentence under this law but doesn't in Vegas, Pennsylvania, NJ., Va., Ga., Tenn., et al.

The names you mentioned ARE irrelevant.  If you want to say the law is wrong and mandatory sentencing is a joke, OK.  But the fact is that NY decided to handle gun crime this way.  The fact is that Mr. X is in prison RIGHT NOW on this exact charge, while Mr. Y is free for doing the same thing in Virginia.  That's state regulation.  You may not like that you can't talk on your cell phone in some jurisdictions while you can in others, that doesn't make the law wrong.

December 2, 2008 12:32 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Bryan-great points, agree 100%

FF57Yrs-The herd did  great analysis of Dallas Playoff hopes. I will try to find it. Basically he said due to the easy schedules of Tampa, Carolina and ATL, that Dalls HAS to go 3-1 to make the playoffs. So if Pittsburg beats them this week, we can put the final nail in next week

December 2, 2008 12:32 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Yeah Carolina is a full game up on dallas right now, but TB loses the tiebreaker with Dal, so we want TB to win on monday night and basically wrap up the division. The issue is that we play Carolina. They need to go 2-2 down the stretch, which is entirely possible. Atlanta needs to win out... But the key is dallas going 2-2 down the stretch. If that happens they will be hard pressed to get in.... All the assumptions are based on the fact that Dallas will go 2-2... I hope they do to be honest....

December 2, 2008 12:33 PM
 

Terrence T said:

rich...what you gettin at?

December 2, 2008 12:33 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

As Giant fans, rather that politicians, how do you guys see any of this mess affecting the Giants. It could add to the already great story, with the emergence of another nobody (Hixon) or we could let it ruin us. I cant see the Giants being THAT affected by it... Especially after this week. I think AP will be fine and he and Eli will carry us in this final stretch.

You guys see this as a chapter in the story or the end of it?

December 2, 2008 12:37 PM
 

Dan Benton said:

Bryan - I am not disagreeing with you about differing gun laws in NY and other states. What I am saying is that murder is still murder in each state, and how is it that Plax will likely server more time than Ray Lewis? OJ Simpson?

Yes, I am comparing different crimes in different states, but that doesn't make any of it right.

Plax, under no circumstances, deserves to serve more time than any of those other names.

And I also apologize for misreading your previous comment.

December 2, 2008 12:37 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

We want TB to beat Carolina for the simple reason that we don't want the Panthers coming to town in week 16 with a chance to perhaps pull within 1 game heading into the final week of the season.

December 2, 2008 12:38 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Mike V, got it. Thanks. Rooting against the Ain'ts is already second-nature to me. Not only for the draft pick (which is looking better-and-better) but for the delight in seeing the chances of Brees winning that MVP (which would be a joke) go down in flames.

I like to imagine the conversation in the Ain'ts' front office when they were negotiating with Jerry Reese.

"Hey, Shockey is the piece we need to get to the Super Bowl. How much are we really giving up with that second pick. It will probably be at best the 58-60th pick because with this roster we should do no worse than get to the Conference Semi-Finals. We probably get to the NFC Championship because by taking Shockey away from the Giants we damage them and the only team we really have to worry about is the Cowboys, right? It should be easy to win our Division. Who else is there? Carolina is on the way down. Atlanta has nothing. Is Garcia going to do anything this year? I don't think so, so we can beat Tampa Bay. So we get a bye in the playoffs. That puts us in the Final Eight teams at worst. A #56 pick, but I think it's even later, probably in the 60's, and a late 5th round pick for Shockey? Yeah, we have to do that."

Har, har, har.

December 2, 2008 12:39 PM
 

bearcat said:

Oops: I agree with Rich that the "right to protection SHOULD NOT absolve people from censure about gunplay.

December 2, 2008 12:39 PM
 

Terrence T said:

im not sayin its right either bearcat...i mean plax or anyone shouldnt just be carrying guns around especially if it aint licensed. im sayin that i can see why some stars do that....for protection. they walk around with a huge bulls eye on their backs at all times

December 2, 2008 12:43 PM
 

bearcat said:

Terrence T:  And I'm just saying that the odds of a celebrity hurting themselves or someone else are much greater than are the odds they they can successfully protect themselves with a gun.  Better to hire a professional body guard.  Not the perfect solution.  But better.  By far.

December 2, 2008 12:45 PM
 

rich said:

terrence, i got the feeling from your previous post  that you felt the influence of gangs over certain  athletes in some professional sports was an exaggeration. if that wasnt what you were intimating i apologize.

December 2, 2008 12:45 PM
 

Dan Benton said:

Just so everyone knows:

Plax is at Giants Stadium today getting treatment on his hamstring.

Meanwhile, Coughlin and Reese are on the field working out some new players, but there is no word on who those players are.

December 2, 2008 12:48 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Okay, so my scenario of a few weeks ago is intact, if I understand you guys correctly. The Giants have the opportunity to knock each of their NFC opponents out of the playoff race on three successive weeks. We killed off the Redskins on Sunday. I think we put the nail in the coffin and mathematically eliminate the Eagles this Sunday. And if the 'Boys lose to the Steelers on Sunday we can show them the door (at least in all likelihood) the next Sunday night.

I don't think motivation, or distraction, will be an issue for the next few weeks. Frankly, I don't think it's an issue in any case.

Terrence, to answer your question I think as long as NYC keeps its paws off Pierce this will be a bump in the road. And we should all thank the heavens for David Tyree's injury in training camp so the issue of keeping Hixon never had to come up.

It would be nice if we get to see some contributions from Manningham over the next four weeks. I think Steve Smith only got back from injury last season with 4-5 games to play, so someone from whom you haven't seen much could have a real impact down the stretch. The same could go for guys like Wilkinson and Kehl. This could get interesting.

December 2, 2008 12:55 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Dan Benton- MG says that one one the Players working out are Tyler Palko QB from Pitt

December 2, 2008 12:56 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Dan - well, OJ was found innocent.  That's a debate that can go on forever, but I'll end it right now - whether he did it or not, he was absolved by a jury of his peers FOR WHATEVER REASON.

I don't know enough about the Lewis situation.  Wasn't that an obstruction charge and not murder?

And certainly its odd to sentence anyone for ANYTHING to less time than for murder.  But that's the way NY felt about it, obviously.

But the other side of the coin is Plax should go away for 3 years, and murders should get 25 mandatory.  To me, yes its an outrage that L. Little isn't in jail, but that's a reflection on the jurisdiction and cops and judge and whatnot where ever he committed the crime and a comment on the laxity of the law and the privilege these guys get, not an argument for Plax being let go.

December 2, 2008 12:57 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Nice piece Dan.

You know, I've always had a great deal of respect for Bloomberg as a mayor I feel he's done a very good job - but his recent stunts regarding a 3rd term have been annoying - and now this crap?

Coming out and basically saying you better throw this guy in jail because I said so, because I am the law?

Please shut your mouth Bloomberg, and that 3rd term just became a lot less likely.

December 2, 2008 12:59 PM
 

Terrence T said:

bearcat...for some people im not sayin its wrong or right but for some havin that gun is like a safety blanket... my daughter has that safety blanket and when she has it..no matter if she falls and gets hurt or just alone if she has that blanket then all is well....if you have kids then you prob no what im talkin about. but im just sayin even if the guy might not even use the gun, just havin it might give him a sense of security that a bodygaud wont give him. again im not sayin its right.

and rich, i understand...believe me gangs and other involvements arent exaggerated...look at the nba...im just sayin that for some they might be a lil stereotypical when it comes to a black athelete with tats and gotee... when in actuallity just cuz you have a tat and gotee doesnt by any means mean that you are in a gang... im sure you know that.

December 2, 2008 1:00 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

TRBM ... not to quibble, but OJ was found "not guilty."  A bit of a distinction.

December 2, 2008 1:01 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Basically, Bloomberg is using this situation to get publicity and use his gun laws and Plax as an example to get his third term.

Please. This is why no one can trust or stand politicians.

You have a job to do Mr.Mayor, and that job isn't to play the judge in Plaxico's case.

December 2, 2008 1:02 PM
 

Nosh said:

Free Plax!!!!!

Seriously, I have no idea what will happen to him but it sounds like his trial won't begin until late March. If that's the case and I were the Giants I'd suspend him for a game or 2, and allow him to play the rest of the 2009 season. I just think our Offense and team for that matter is better with him on the field. Also keep in mind I'm speaking as a GIANTS FAN, if Burress were a Cowboy I'd probably feel a little different on the matter.

I don't believe he should do jail time, but their are several Rappers in prison right now for similar gun charges that Plaxico is facing. Prodigy from Mobb Deep is a good example. So he may end up serving some.

Still it'd be nice if Plax came back and helped us win another SB this year.

December 2, 2008 1:02 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Basically, Bloomberg is using this situation to get publicity and use his gun laws and Plax as an example to get his third term.

Please. This is why no one can trust or stand politicians.

You have a job to do Mr.Mayor, and that job isn't to play the judge in Plaxico's case.

December 2, 2008 1:02 PM
 

3rdand5 said:

First of all, Mayor Bloomberg shouldn't be talking about anyone being "above the law" when he went behind his constituents' backs to have term limit laws rewritten. Regardless of the degree to which of us feel the situations are comparable or not, it's still blatantly hypocritical of him.

Secondly, I sympathize with Plaxico Burress in this situation. I do. I get not wanting to have to think, with a gun pointed to his head, why didn't I just bring my weapon? I might have gotten into trouble, but I could be protecting myself right now with my LIFE on the line. If you want to judge me, that's fine, but I get that. I do. And then a ____ed up accident happens and that small thought gets blown into this. It's just an unfortunate turn of events. None of us can ever judge intent, but I think there is a big difference between a gun-owner like Placixo and all of the criminals out there who are packing heat on a daily basis. Again judge me if you want, but that seems to be a fact to at least me.

December 2, 2008 1:03 PM
 

wr45171 said:

how many of these "gun related incidents"  are simply due to the fact that these guys have grown up and can now pay for the guns they used to carry/steal as youngsters?  I mean burress has stated that he was involved or around this type of trouble growing up... how many of these other guys were involved with the same crap as youthes?  Could it be that these spoiled egotistical guys now have the means to live out their childhood fantasies as being "tough guys"?

I think 3.5 yrs is abit much...but he should be slapped repeadedly about the head and neck area.  

December 2, 2008 1:06 PM
 

hkiswani said:

3rdand5 -

Great post and great points.

December 2, 2008 1:07 PM
 

bearcat said:

If Plax is entitled to a jury trial, it's possible a good lawyer can find one sympathetic juror to stanch a conviction.  

December 2, 2008 1:07 PM
 

Nosh said:

Also, and I realize I'm in the Minority for this, I don't think Vick needed to do as much time as he did, if any.

December 2, 2008 1:07 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Bloomberg did this crap for political gain, period. No one can dispute that.

And for that, I can't stand him. Stick your nose in some other crap Bloomberg, hypocritical clown.

You are not the law.

December 2, 2008 1:08 PM
 

Nosh said:

Haz-

Most politicians do most things for political gain.

Like Bush going to war with Iraq.

December 2, 2008 1:11 PM
 

Mike V said:

Did anyone actually watch Bloomberg when he made his statement on ESPN?  It was sort of funny watching him pretend that he's some sort of tough guy, with his big, bad gun control laws.  What a cockroach.  The contempt I have for this guy is off the charts.

December 2, 2008 1:13 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Remaing Games for  NFC South & Wild Card Teams

ATLANTA  -  @ NO,  TB,  @ MIN  & STL  

CAROLINA  -  TB ,  DEN,  @ NYG,  @ NO  

DALLAS  -   @ PIT , NYG,  BAL,  @ PHI  

TAMPA BAY @ CAR,  @ ATL,  SD,  OAK  

Even though the Cowboys may be the Best Team of the 4, That schedule could doom them.

December 2, 2008 1:13 PM
 

wr45171 said:

if the nfl is going to have so many guys carring guns....why not install some safety courses?  I know it sounds crazy but guys that know how to handle guns usually dont shoot themselves accidentally....I mean if they are going to carry them anyway then the league needs to educate my favorite sunday thugs.

December 2, 2008 1:14 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

bearcat:

I would be very surprised if this thing ever went to trial.  The state doesn't have the time, money or resources to go trying what amounts to a rinky dink criminal case.  Especially confronted with a wealthy defendant capable of hiring a state of the art defense team.  Mayor Bloomberg's grandstanding aside, I predict Plaxico cuts a deal for a lesser charge and does no time.  

Whether the Giants keep him or not? That's another matter.  I said yesterday that I think it depends a lot on how he's perceived by the team. If Reese, Coughlin, and the members of the leadership council think he can help them win, they'll keep him.  If they think he'll end up doing more harm than good, then adios Plax.  

Reese has stated on several occasions that he kicks the tires on every available player and that he would be negligent not to do so. If he thinks he can salvage Burress, he'll keep him.  They may restructure his deal in order to do that, given they now have considerable leverage.

December 2, 2008 1:15 PM
 

Nosh said:

I agree Bloomberg comes off looking like an a#s here. But had it been TO or DeSean Jackson, do you think you guys would feel the same way?

December 2, 2008 1:15 PM
 

wr45171 said:

interesting demo....i certainly agree that could doom the gurls.  and the falcones have prob. the easiest of those teams...with Min and Stl to close out the season.

How crazy would it be for Ryan to lead that mess to the playoffs in his rook year?

December 2, 2008 1:17 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Mike V -

Cockroach - perfect word for this clown.

Nosh -

Definitely would feel the same way. He's out of line.

December 2, 2008 1:17 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

Anyone think that the Smith situation had to do with a few balls he dropped in the game.  Maybe his head was elsewhere.

They werent the best thrown balls, but I can remember two times where the ball hit Smith in the hands and he didnt make the catch.  Just a thought.

December 2, 2008 1:18 PM
 

rich said:

oh francessa shut the hell up.

December 2, 2008 1:19 PM
 

wr45171 said:

did everyone catch what they said this am on sportscenter?  Where they were talking about them charging burress with a statute that requires them to prove that he intended to do harm to another with the weapon?  That could be trouble for them jumping in so fast.  Or the charges could or will possibly be reduced.  Lawyer thoughts?  lol

December 2, 2008 1:19 PM
 

Nosh said:

Free Plax! Free Plax!

December 2, 2008 1:20 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

wr, that was one of the two things he was getting charged with.  That one is likely to fail once the evidence is presented.  However, he is also charged with carrying an illegal weapon.  That one is the one that will do the most damage

December 2, 2008 1:22 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

wr45171 ... the charge involving intent to do harm is automatic. If you are in possession of an illegal firearm the law states that you are considered to have an intent to use it on another person. However, the defendant has the right to bring evidence at trial to dispute the "intent" issue.

December 2, 2008 1:22 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

I was thinkin the same thing TMQB- Last few weeks he has seemed off a little

December 2, 2008 1:23 PM
 

Mike V said:

What's Mikey saying?

Nosh - I'd like to think I would have an open mind about stuff like that.  As much as I hate TO - I think it would an absolute disgrace if he was in the same situation as Plax and he ended up going to jail for 3 years.  I think most of us are at the point where we are extremely pissed off that this cockroach Bloomberg is using Plax as a political pawn, and it's complete garbage.

December 2, 2008 1:24 PM
 

wr45171 said:

thanks.  any word on who was working out? palko? wtf?

December 2, 2008 1:25 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Smith that is...

December 2, 2008 1:25 PM
 

rich said:

ht tp://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/mandatory_minimum_sentencing_statutes/

this lawyer brings up a couple of good points regarding plaxico's pending defense.

December 2, 2008 1:27 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

WR- yeah it would be Crazy for A rookie QB starting from day 1 to lead his team to the playoffs. I see TB loosing only to Carolina and going 12-4. I see Carolina only loosing to us and also going 12-4. Atlanta will loose to T B and possibly Minnesota. That puts them at 10-6 and would come Down to Conferance record with CowGirls. Will be interesting to see what happens. The possibility of  Both Pro Bowl DT's on the Vikings getting suspended this week could change Atlant to 11-5 though

December 2, 2008 1:27 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Mike Garfolo just reported that AP has left Giants stadium but Plaxico is still inside

December 2, 2008 1:28 PM
 

rich said:

mike is basically saying that  if plax ever suits up  for the giants again then everything the organization ever stood for goes down  the toilet. his "holier than thou" attitude just ticks me off

December 2, 2008 1:29 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

DEMO- The real key is Dallas losing the next few weeks... Thats the real key

December 2, 2008 1:30 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

Kyle:

Is Elvis still in the building, or no?

G

December 2, 2008 1:31 PM
 

Dan Murphy said:

At least he didn't blow off his crank.

Can you imagine all of the ridicule he is going to take from opposing cornerbacks?

"Hey, Plax.  Best of luck to you on the upcoming route.  By the way, don't shoot yourself on the way there"

He could have made it a lot worse but clipping his trouser snake.

December 2, 2008 1:32 PM
 

wr45171 said:

dan hilarious...if he would have wounded his twig and giggleberries....he may as well go ahead and retire.  The ridicule would be too much to bear.  

December 2, 2008 1:35 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

The Australian guy got it right:  ban all guns.  Constitution scmonstitution.  Amend the Constitution I say.  After all, slavery used to be constitutionally protected.  We used to be able to drink, then constitutionally we couldn't, now we can again.  the President used to be able to serve as many terms as he wanted, now only two.  amend I say, amend!

December 2, 2008 1:36 PM
 

wr45171 said:

no kidding the constitution is nothing more than a old piece of toilet paper now....we dont abide by anything in there.  and its always the first thing called upon when someone thinks they have been "wronged"

December 2, 2008 1:37 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Right now Plax is most likely getting the business from upper management, and they are most likely getting as much Info about the legal situation as possible. I think by the end of the day he gets placed on the non-football injury reserve list. Pierce will be back for practice later

December 2, 2008 1:38 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

And anyone who wants a complete ban on guns may get their wish under the Barak Obama administration

December 2, 2008 1:39 PM
 

HopLax08 said:

FF55 -  I just finished reading the posts from the previous thread.  I am glad you reposted your comments on this thread because they were exceptional, especially the one at 11:17am.  If you hadn't resposted them, I would have.  IMHO your Giant and non-Giant insights, judgments and perspective are considerable.  Thank you for taking the time and effort to share them with us.

December 2, 2008 1:39 PM
 

rich said:

assuming plax' giant  career is done what do  we do next year? get a known receiver through trade/free agency? try to get a stud in the draft? stand pat with what we have?

December 2, 2008 1:43 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

They will never be able to Ban all Guns, it will never, ever happen in this country. Keep Dreaming Jim

December 2, 2008 1:45 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Rich- that is a good question, TJ Housh is the best free agen available but I dont see this team forking over $$$$ or Picks to sign or Trade for anyone. Maybe Draft someone to go with Hix, Toom, Smith, Moss and Manningham.

December 2, 2008 1:48 PM
 

rich said:

defense attorney is on  the fan right now....basically  saying that "mandatory-minimum" sentence is not as clear cut as it sounds.

December 2, 2008 1:48 PM
 

rich said:

demo-most likelty scenario, i agree. love to hear what the cards would want for boldin.

December 2, 2008 1:49 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

wr45171, I am all for amending the 2d Amendment out of the constitution, but to say it is nothing but unfollowed old toilet paper is not correct.  It is a beautiful document  for its brevity (only 8 pages long in its original drafting) and flexibility.  The constitution is not the problem; rather it is the attitudes of society that need to be changed.  Remember when cigarette smoking was cool and suggesting otherwise was heresey?  Guns are the same as cigarettes but too many people really like them and that attitude may never change.  but the constitution itself is not the problem

December 2, 2008 1:51 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

I say they should draft a tall fast WR with their 3rd round pick. We can use some defensive upgrades at LB, DT, and Safety (Butler is a free agent I think. I know noone likes him on here but he is a solid player who will need to be replaced if they don't bring him back. They have been using 3 safeties all year.)

December 2, 2008 1:52 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

Does anyone have any skuttlebutt on Manningham?  I was sure he'd see the field against the Skins and sure hope he does against the Iggles

December 2, 2008 1:58 PM
 

Terrence T said:

has mike ever heard of a guy by the name of Lawrence Taylor?.... he had issues and was the greatest giant ever

December 2, 2008 1:58 PM
 

rich said:

some good calls on the fan right now....interesting stuff

December 2, 2008 1:59 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

The only way we get TJ Houshmazilli is if he's willing to give us a significant discount because he wants to:

1) win a Super Bowl

and

2) come to a professional organization after being sentenced the last 5 years to that Ringling Bros like football purgatory otherwise known as the Cincinnati Bengals.

December 2, 2008 2:00 PM
 

HopLax08 said:

Kyle - that will never happen fortunately.  Historically, just look at what happened when there was 100% gun confiscation in Russia, China, Italy and Germany.....totaletarian regimes with their concomitant genocide of millions of innocent civilians and the complete loss of human freedoms, etc.   I'd say that's not a good thing.

In my humble opinion, the Second Amendment is by far the most important because it is the only amendment that allows us to remain a democracy with personal freedoms.  Our founding fathers felt exactly the same way and if you doubt that, I would recommend you read the Federalist Papers which clearly outline in detailed fashion the actual intentions of our founding fathers.

December 2, 2008 2:00 PM
 

Terrence T said:

i would like Boldin but i dont think the giants are goin to release plax...he will play for us nxt year

December 2, 2008 2:01 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

Reese seems disinclined to grab big name players at big paydays in FA.  Unless he gets a value, he's likely going to stick with the draft -- and who can blame him?

December 2, 2008 2:02 PM
 

rich said:

t--im just going with worst case scenario. listening to a couple of lawyers on the fan, you may be correct.

December 2, 2008 2:03 PM
 

GIANTT said:

Unfortunately , I was knocked off line for a couple of days and Ive just been catching up on everything

Re Plax - Two things that struck me that HAVENT been mentioned -

First I made a comment somewhat facetiously a few days ago about mandatory gun training for any

NFL rookie -  maybe it should read mandatory training for any player who contemplates owning a gun - Could it be part of a standard player contract ?

One of the first things you are taught is NEVER carry a weapon with one "UP THE SPOUT " for very obvious reasons , Now whenever a trainer says that and some smartass says whod be that stupid , he can point to Plax

second of all , I want to play Devils Advocate for a moment - What the h-ll was Bloomberg supposed to say - We are going to work around the law and get this  rich and stupid athlete off ?  NO - . of course it was posturing , and quite frankly , I wouldnt have expected him to say ANYTHING else at this point -and now they can  sit down and start negotiating with the Giants and the NFL

and get a solution which will satisfy EVERYONE and not be trapped by having made a statement that they have to live up to .

As TOGM says about intent , or the laws here are stricter than elsewhere etc etc . then work to Change the law , dont complain about it .

Back to football- The Giants have already shown that they can win without Plax -

Re AP - Im caught because of course he is GREAT as a leader , but his physical skills are on the downside , so does whoever taking his place (Blackburn ?) make up enough of his generalship with his improved physical play ? My guess is not but I dont think it will cause too much of a problem

December 2, 2008 2:05 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

This guy on the fan now is saying that the charge that carries the mandatory 3.5 years in jail is the charge of carrying with an intent to harm.  There is no way in hell they get Plax on intent to harm.  

December 2, 2008 2:05 PM
 

rich said:

after seeing how boldin came back from the injury he sustained earlier in the year, he seems like the kind of big name i'd make an exception  for.  that guy is not only a great talent but also as gutsy as they come.

December 2, 2008 2:06 PM
 

Dan Benton said:

This went over better than expected.

And Nosh, although I used him and his sentence as an example here, I agree with you. In my opinion, Vick was done a little dirty -- again, made an example of.

What he did was WAY wrong, but I am not entirely sure it warranted what he got. Twas a tad overboard, me thinks.

December 2, 2008 2:07 PM
 

rich said:

tmq---exactly...looks like somebody screwed up.

December 2, 2008 2:07 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

GIANTT... Bloomberg should have kept his mouth shut and waited for the evidence to comeout before he said anything.  

Bottom line is he saw an A-list celebrity up against his pride and joy gun laws and he splurged in his pants at the thought of his hard fought law taking down a celebrity.

December 2, 2008 2:08 PM
 

Dan Benton said:

If anyone is listening to WFAN right now, it sounds good for Plax.

December 2, 2008 2:09 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

What about pierce dan?

December 2, 2008 2:14 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

haha now another lawyer is on the fan saying the last guy was wrong... So that is three lawyers in the past 10 minutes on here who have all had different stories on what Plax is facing.  What a mess.

Bottom line is, we arent going to know legally what Plax's deal is until March and after that.  No point to speculate.

December 2, 2008 2:14 PM
 

Krow said:

I think Plax put people in danger.  And the law demands that anyone whose reckless actions endanger the public be punished.  Like this scumbag for instance...

archives.cnn.com/.../bush.dui

December 2, 2008 2:17 PM
 

STU H. said:

Man this is out of control we are all speculating about something that we have no control over. We don't get to vote on this Plaxico issue.

The NFL postures and then lets guys like PacMan play.  Quite frankly I think their all full of sh**.

I hope that Pierce doesn't get in trouble for trying to cover this up. Unfortunately, he is involved.

As for the coments about OJ. He was one of the greatest players ever and also one of the worst guys ever.

The problem with Burress is that he doesn't think that rules are made for him.

December 2, 2008 2:17 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

Krow... settle down over there

December 2, 2008 2:18 PM
 

Krow said:

Just sayin'

December 2, 2008 2:20 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

on the fan, Mike said he spoke with some NYPD and they told him... "If Pierce cooperates he wont be in any trouble, if he doesnt cooperate he is in for a very long month of so"

I am sure Pierce's lawyer has told him just that.

December 2, 2008 2:21 PM
 

Mike V said:

TMQB - Exactly, and that is why Bloomberg is deserving of our contempt.  The guy is a cockroach - he comes out parading at the right moment.

December 2, 2008 2:28 PM
 

Krow said:

AP has no reason not to cooperate.  Right now he's "scared straight".  But every day that the hysteria builds it looks more and more like a good old-fashioned lynching for 17 Cent.

December 2, 2008 2:28 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

Dan Benton ... what was said that made you think it was looking good for Plax??

December 2, 2008 2:29 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

See this is why i collect swords and not guns.  I walk into a club with a sword strapped to my back, I've got no worries of it accidentally  going off. lol

And as for what Brandon Jacobs was saying about defending his home, Give that m'fer a sword and watch the perps run for it.  If i saw a 6'5", 264lbs dude with a Scottish Claymore (Braveheart sword for those that don't know), I'd run too.

December 2, 2008 2:32 PM
 

Dan Benton said:

Original G Man - That they charged Plax with a C felony, which was "intent to use." which cannot be proven.

They had two lawyers saying he wouldn't see the inside of a jail cell.

Since then, it hasn;t sounded as pretty.

December 2, 2008 2:33 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

Dan ... so basically, you jinxed Plax.

Nice going.

December 2, 2008 2:34 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Krow - or kind of like when that scumbag Ted Kennedy was driving drunk and kiled the girl that was in the car with him. OH and waited a couple of days to report it...

December 2, 2008 2:35 PM
 

Krow said:

Anyway... as I was so badly beaten about last week... I'd like to offer again that WR has risen up our draft priority list.

17 Cent was the lynchpin (pun intended) that made the WR group dangerous.  It's like basketball... your opponent's #1 defensive guy matches up on your #1 offensive guy.  #2 on #2... #3 on #3.  If you lose your top guy then their best player is on your #2.  Their #2 on your #3.... etc etc.  The entire group suffers.

We have an excellent group of possession, slot, and depth WRs.  But no #1... not without crazy, self-destructive Plax.

The FO has to understand this.  And while they can't do anything now... if 17 Cent lives out his gangsta fantasy in prison they will have to face this reality.

It's either draft... and draft high... or trade.  Cause without that go-to target a lot of wheels may fall off.  Eli... the running game... domino domino domino.

December 2, 2008 2:36 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

HungrElikeawulf- Jacobs with a Wiffle ball bat would still scare the *** out of em

December 2, 2008 2:38 PM
 

Krow said:

Yeah Demo.  Like that ba$tard.  Whatever happened to him?  Prison for lfe I imagine.  And if he ever gets free what kind of a person would have anything to do with him?

www.google.com/imgres

December 2, 2008 2:39 PM
 

giantsfan said:

Here's an honest question:

What good exactly does the gun provide? Say for example, someone comes from behind and puts a gun to your head. You're not going to pull out your gun now. Okay, say he came from the front. Are you going to pull it out then and have a shoot out?

I guess the only scenario is if you get ganged up on, by a bunch of thugs WITHOUT a gun...

Carrying a gun is just plain stupid.

December 2, 2008 2:40 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Dan - "he will never see the inside of a jail cell.".... last heard during the fetal stages of the Vick situation.

To whoever asked if everyone would feel the same if it was Jackson or TO - maybe they would.  I'd like to think so.  

But the record shows they ripped Dallas for picking up Tank and mocked Dallas as a home for criminals and felons.  Aand he was only charged with having unregistered guns in his home.  Not taking them into a crowded public place and discharging them.

So, it happens to a Gmen player, the Gmen are a great organization that believes in second chances, Dallas picks up a player and its black mark.

Not everyone reacted this way, but the majority did.

December 2, 2008 2:40 PM
 

HopLax08 said:

With regard to Pierce, we are learning that the NYPD is trying to coerce his cooperation.  They are in essence threatening him with the prospect of future criminal charges.  Pierce cooperates at his own peril.

We have all seen what happens when people cooperate, their words are ultimately held and used against them  (ie Martha Stewart ).  Pierce has no obligation whatsoever at this point to speak to them and certainly if what he has to say is self-incriminating.....does the 5th amendment ring a bell?  It is the obligation of The State to collect and compile the facts and not Pierce's.  

Hopefully he is getting astute legal advise because our "big brother" government seems to be more driven by high profile pelts than it does by exactlng fair and equitable justice.

December 2, 2008 2:40 PM
 

HopLax08 said:

With regard to Pierce, we are learning that the NYPD is trying to coerce his cooperation.  They are in essence threatening him with the prospect of future criminal charges.  Pierce cooperates at his own peril.

We have all seen what happens when people cooperate, their words are ultimately held and used against them  (ie Martha Stewart ).  Pierce has no obligation whatsoever at this point to speak to them and certainly if what he has to say is self-incriminating.....does the 5th amendment ring a bell?  It is the obligation of The State to collect and compile the facts and not Pierce's.  

Hopefully he is getting astute legal advise because our "big brother" government seems to be more driven by high profile pelts than it does by exactlng fair and equitable justice.

December 2, 2008 2:40 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

giantsfan - better question: assuming a gun provides some level of protection, if you are  such a poor operator that you shoot yourself in the leg, how in the world do you expect to operate it in A) a shootout, or B) in self defense?

December 2, 2008 2:41 PM
 

Krow said:

HungrElikeawulf... nothing compares to a good bladed weapon.  A katana... nothing like it.  

December 2, 2008 2:41 PM
 

HopLax08 said:

sorry for the double post

December 2, 2008 2:42 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Krow-your point about Plax makes sense on paper but every Time he is out Eli looks better than ever. I think with our Oline and Running game that Eli doesnt need  a top5 WR to be succesful. Kind of like Brady won 3 SB's with guys like Branch, Patten,  and Givins.

December 2, 2008 2:42 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

"Pierce has no obligation whatsoever at this point to speak to them and certainly if what he has to say is self-incriminating"

Well, that's pretty much the ONLY way he can legally refuse to speak to them. Aside from that, he is not only obligated, but he has to speak to them, or refuse to do so at his own legal peril.  Heck, if a grand jury wants to give him immunity, even the 5th amendment isn't a valid reason not to testify.  

December 2, 2008 2:45 PM
 

STU H. said:

Let's listen to Mike Francessa that pompus ass don't know squat and do you think the lawyers who call into his program are defending any of these high profile athletes, give me a break.

Burress may be made an example of ,what not to do and he probably deserves everything he gets for thinking his crap don't stink.

The Giants will win without him. No one is bigger than the team.

December 2, 2008 2:46 PM
 

Krow said:

If someone on your team gets in trouble then the honorable thing is to try to help them.  However collecting players with a shaky past that were booted off other teams is quite a different matter.

Let's not forget how the Eagles stood by Andy Reid when his two sons turned their home into North Medellín.  Drugs... guns... you name it.  The Giants should do the same.

December 2, 2008 2:46 PM
 

HopLax08 said:

Bryan - the difference between the Giants and the Cowboys is that the Giants don't bring in convicted felons or malcontents through free agency, Dallas does and it is part of the modus operandi.

December 2, 2008 2:49 PM
 

Mike V said:

Bryan - there is no comparison whatsoever.  Tank Johnson was not a Dallas Cowboy when he committed his offenses.  He was a Chicago Bear.  He committed more than one offense as a Chicago Bear.  The Bears had enough of him, and dumped him.  So credit the Bears for giving him a second chance, but he blew it.  They showed him the door, and it was fair.

This is Burress's first criminal offense, unless you count his public drunkenness arrest in VA way back when.

December 2, 2008 2:51 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

KROW I agree with you, the Katana is the ultimate in blade craftsmanship.  Perfect combination of form and function.  But for the purpose of my visualization of Brandon scaring off some thugs, the Claymores six feet of steel would seem much more imposing.  I guess Jacobs holding a Naginata would be pretty scary too.

December 2, 2008 2:52 PM
 

Jared said:

Jim Stoll:

Banning all guns in the U.S. is not a solution.  This would create a terrible black market in this country. The key is more gun control in the form of handling and training.  Professional athletes and other entertainers can make a compelling case for obtaining a concealed weapons permit.  Be it in Montana or NYC, in order to obtain that permit,  one should be required to have proper training on the use of the firearm.  For example, it took this website for KD to understand the difference between he custom of not having a round in the chamber of a shotgun and having a round in the chamber of a semi automatic handgun.  Now, we have a new contributer to this group named Conrad.  He think he must be in law enforcement.  He knows about the Glock and how there is nothing accidental about placing your finger on the trigger and squeezing it.  I predict the Giants wil keep Plaxico at least through December 10th. They will pay him the 1 million dollar bonus  because he will need to money for his attorney.  

December 2, 2008 2:58 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

We are fine without Plax this year.... we are a run first team and then we run some more.  Eli is not asked to win games with his arm, just to (and I hate using this term) "manage the game".  Next year is a different story with either Jacobs or Ward or maybe both ( I doubt it) being gone and our running game maybe being brought down a peg or two.

I wouldnt be apposed to drafting a WR in the early to mid rounds of this draft to try to replace the type of threat that Plax was.  But for this year, we are going to continue to rely on our run game and Defense to win games, just as we have all year.

December 2, 2008 2:58 PM
 

Krow said:

HungrElikeawulf... the naginata is a chick weapon, so we can't set BJ up with that.  And he doesn't seem the skillful type.  So yeah, a two-handed claymore... dirk in his sock... all decked out in kilt and kit and heading for Culloden.  One last highland charge... LOL.....

December 2, 2008 2:59 PM
 

Bill D said:

Dan,

As I said last night.  As an ACTUAL resident of NYC (not a suburb, like the actual city... b/c I can actually afford it... yes i'm being obnoxious but for a reason) I do NOT want people thinking they can carry and conceal weapons at bars and nightclubs.  It is a dangerous precedent if people think they can be a tough guy and only walk away with a fine.   Lude and aggressive behavior combined with alcohol is enough a problem on a normal weekend evening.  To think that a gun is "ok" to go along with it is a recipe for disaster.  

Burress could have taken many other approaches to protect himself.  1) Hire a car/lime to sit right outside the club, 2) hire a small security detail, 3) not carry cash and jewelry, 4) not draw attention to himself and his friends, 5) HIRE EFFING SECURITY...

Honestly, protecting himself?  If you really think that is what this is about then I have a bridge to sell you in Alaska (thanks Sarah and Stephen).  Plaxico was trying to be a bad ass tough guy, b/c that is his persona.  He is getting burned for it, and you know what, tough ***.  He is 31 years old, he has had plenty of time and paychecks to get over being a tough guy.  Some people just have to learn the hard way.  He is lucky he got out of the club and ditched the weed that was almost undoubtedly in the car as well.

December 2, 2008 3:01 PM
 

giantsfan said:

TMQB, I think everyone is undervaluing the Plax Factor.

The man commands double-coverage = one less man to stop the run + more opportunities/better matchups  for other WRs. Every opponent of ours will roll the coverage toward Plax. And dont forget, Plax is also a superb blocker. And oh yeah, a BIG target in the endzone.

Like I said earlier, Hixon is awesome, but he doesn't provide the same advantages (or his headaches).

Losing Plax for this season GREATLY hurts us. But can we still prevail? I hope so. We did it against the redskins (tho I don't respect them so much as an elite team). These next few weeks will be telling of how we'll fare in the playoffs.

December 2, 2008 3:11 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

Krow, BJ in a scottish kilt would be too funny.  i wonder what clan he would be?  Sure KD can come up with something appropriate.  

Back to football, Hixon is good but I'm not confident in him being the #1 WR on this team.  He doesn't garner the double teams that help open up the running game.  I don't know what his blocking downfield is like but I doubt it is on par with Plax.

You want a scary scenario going into the playoffs?  Plax, Hixon, and Smith in a three WR set with Boss at TE and BJacobs in the backfield.  Option to spread it wide and run or pass at will.  Take whatever the defensive gives and move the ball at will.  That alignment would give any defensive coordinator fits.

December 2, 2008 3:13 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Bryan -

What the hell are you talking about? Did you just compare this organization to the Dallas Cowboys in terms of bringing on guys with criminal histories? What the hell?

So we're supposed to put the Giants in the same breath as Dallas if we want to defend Plax now, that's what you're saying?

Last time I checked this happened THIS WEEKEND, and Plax had no criminal record when the Giants brought him on AT ALL.

So I don't know what point you're trying to make there.

Almost as bad as your comment that the Giants would be 10-2 with David Carr in the lineup, which was beyond ridiculous as well.

December 2, 2008 3:15 PM
 

giantsfan said:

TMQB, I also would like to point out the fact that our running game suffered greatly in the past two games, the past two games that Plax was not involved in. Coincidence?

I know the past two teams were committed to stopping the run. But the eagles put up nearly 170 yards of rushing on the Cards. How come we didnt fare better? Okay, no jacobs...maybe...

But my point is, Plaxico is a very important cog in our offense.  And losing him for the rest of the season scares me...

December 2, 2008 3:16 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

giantsfan, I was one of the biggest ones on here arguing against Hixon being able to replace Plax... He cant.  But this year the Giants have been a run first team, will their be an extra safety in the box trying to stop the run?  Absolutely, all that means is, is that there is one less defender downfield covering all of the other receivers and Eli can place the ball where it needs to be in any single coverage situation.  Losing Plax hurts, there is no question, but this team is good enough to balance itself out and take advantage of how they are played defensively.

December 2, 2008 3:16 PM
 

hkiswani said:

And Bryan,

The Giants are giving THEIR OWN guy a second chance, a guy who hasn't been in trouble with the law before this year a second chance.

All of a sudden that draws parallels to signing Tank Johnson and Pacman Jones?

Give me a break.

December 2, 2008 3:16 PM
 

giantsfan said:

TMQB, I hope so. I hope so.

This weekend will be a true test against the Eagles' blitz-happy defense.

I'm also afraid of how strong Hixon is physically. He appears to be a small guy. Can he take the pounding he's gonna get playing a more consistent role?

I feel like I'm playing Frank's role, but nicer haha.

December 2, 2008 3:21 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

giantfan, I guess my point is... If we have to now focus our Offense to beat a team a different way, we can.  The two games you just talked about, we didnt run the ball well, but we still won the game.  Why?  Because Eli made the throws that the defense gave to him.  

Eli has proven that he can beat you if he has to.  And the running game has done that all year.  Its a pick your poison, stack an extra saftey in the box to stop the run and Eli can take advantage of one less defender down field.  Keep that safety back there and the running game does its thing.  They can do one or the other, but they cant do both.

December 2, 2008 3:23 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

We have to be the smartest sports site going:  both the 2nd and 5th amendments in one thread

while we speculate on Plax's legal future, if we assume that the Giants stand by him and do not IR him for the season, what are the chances that Goodell refrains from suspending him this season?

December 2, 2008 3:25 PM
 

hkiswani said:

On the field, losing Plax hurts in these areas:

1- The red zone, obviously - he's a terror down there, and we already struggle with red zone offense as it is. Giants will have to adjust and do some work there.

2 - The draw/delayed handoff game. Plax demands safety help over the top and keeps the safety from being aggressive in the box. So that takes a bit of a hit.

3 - The Giants do not have a receiver who can take over a football game at any given moment without #17. That said, they have plenty of weapons and are so strong in the trenches and on the ground that it won't hurt nearly as much for another team.

I think we'll be fine, but Plax's loss definitely hurts in a few ways on the field.

December 2, 2008 3:28 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

Here's the Eagles defensive game plan as I see it:

show us tons of 9 men in the box/blitz packages, but pull out of more of them than they bring in an attempt to bait eli into improvident throws.  When they do bring the heat, they'll do it off the corner or delayed.

This team has established that no front 7 can stop the run, and no back 2 or 3 can stop the pass.  The only thing less is deception - which just happens to be Eli's greatest strength I believe - read and react.

If Eli wins this chess match, the offense could really rack up some big points.

December 2, 2008 3:30 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Jim Stoll -

The chances probably aren't very good considering the fact that the facts are clear - Plax did have an unregistered gun and it did go off, so Goodell probably has grounds to suspend him under the new conduct policy.

That said, he hasn't been convicted or even entered a plea, so we'll see what happens.

December 2, 2008 3:32 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

left  only thing left

December 2, 2008 3:33 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Haz - that's funny, your post.  I didn't compare the Gmen to Dallas, I was making a point about how posters ON THIS SITE would feel, if the shoe were on the other foot.

Obviously, Dallas is a home for these types of players and the Giants are nowhere near Dallas in that regard.  Not even in the same conversation.

Its true that Dallas picks these guys up while the Gmen are dealing with an "in house" situation.  I still think there is some value gained from looking at posters' reactions.

So to sum up  - the conversation was about POSTERS and their reactions, not the teams, and 2) while not a perfect comparison, I've never really seen anyone on this board cut any player from another team some slack.

December 2, 2008 3:39 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

Yea but Bryan, this incident is completely unique compared to other teams and their players.  No one on here is saying he should get off with a slap on the wrist, he was wrong for having an unregistered gun on him.  To give the guy 3.5 years (which I dont think will happen) is a bit much for that.  No one is dead, paralyzed etc. from this incident, the only person hurt/effected is Plax himself, for his own stupidity.  

I dont think you can argue that posters on here are playing favorites (as I think you are implying) when myself and a few others on here were calling for Kareem McKenzie to be deactivated a game for his DUI a few weeks back.

December 2, 2008 3:44 PM
 

Nosh said:

Dan Benton-

Agreed. The Vick thing was purely to make an example of him. Now the "Make an example of" may very well work to help scare other criminals or potential criminals straight, but usually the individual gets a raw deal.

For example if Plax does a significant amount of jail time, than it would very likely see the number of unregistered handguns drop in New York City. People will see what happened with Plax and probably think twice before they bring their hand gun out to the club.

At the same time, is it really fair to the individual? Plaxico is an idiot for what happened no doubt, but is he really deserving of jail time for something that only hurt himself?

And the Vick thing I don't even want to get started on because I thought what the NFL and the Falcons did by trying to get money back from him that he already earned was absurd. So Vick basically fills your stadium up for 6 years and now you want money back that he already received? Do the fans that bought tickets and watched him play get to receive their money back? O.K. I'm rambling now.

December 2, 2008 3:48 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

TMQ - I admired your stance on McKenzie.  Still do.  I think its very honest of you and intelligent that you can seperate your fanhood from the real world.

My problem is this - that's the law.  3.5 years.  Don't like it, change the law.  But you can't ignore it just because it affects a star WR.

There are people in jail, right this minute, on longer sentences, for much less horrible crimes.

Certainly the Cowboys situation was somewhat different, but I still stand by my assertion that people would feel different if this was TO.

December 2, 2008 3:52 PM
 

KD said:

On the subject of scoring, sports pundits are agog over Jersey/A defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, yet you don't hear a peep regarding the team's offensive coordinator, Kevin Gilbride -- though the Giants are first in scoring. Gilbride is not an out-of-nowhere phenom like Spagnuolo, and the media love phenoms. Gilbride has been around the horn many times in the NFL, and has run many offenses that sputtered. But now his charges have won the Super Bowl and lead the league in scoring. How about some recognition?

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

December 2, 2008 3:52 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

A funny quote in Peter King's column today:

3. Can the Giants survive the media circus in town? This should be the easy one. Nothing seems to faze this team. As one veteran GM told me this morning: "It's always easy to survive outside bleep-storms when you've got a good offensive line, good defense line and a cool quarterback."

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

December 2, 2008 3:54 PM
 

Nosh said:

How many pairs of Nikes or Sports Drinks or Video Games did Mike Vick help sell? Cancel his endorsement deal fine.

But why should Nike or any company for that matter get money back from him for services already rendered.

Do all the kids that bought Michael Vick sneakers get their money back? Can I have my 59.99 back for Madden 04? So why is EA allowed to take money back from him?

Look Vick was a fool for what he did, and he no doubt should have been punished. But damn, let the man keep the money he rightly earned.

O.K. Sorry for going off topic their.

December 2, 2008 3:56 PM
 

mwhite06 said:

KD, I read that this morning as well. I know this got brought up sometime last week, but my opinion on Gilbride is still basically the same as it was before, so other teams can have him-- especially if that means one less head coaching job for Spags.

December 2, 2008 3:57 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

The Giants will be fine without Burress. Everyone worried when Tiki retired, everyone worried when Shockey cut hurt then got traded. The offense looks great with out Burress so far, why does anyone worry that losing one guy will hurt some much? This offense will be successful as long as Eli is healthy and the offensive line is healthy simple is that.

December 2, 2008 3:57 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Just weighing in while between meetings and then gone.

HopLax, thanks for the very kind words. For what it's worth, I always find your posts enlightening too.

Bryan, I have frequently praised players on other teams, and among those was Ocho Cinco, whom I have always thought of as a guy trapped in a terrible situation more than a trouble-maker. And for the record, I have neither said that Plax should not pay a price, nor that I feel the Giants should keep him on the team. I simply believe that no public good is done by incarcerating him when there are far better options available to the DA, and that there's no need for the Giants to cut him loose before finding out if he can actually become a more responsible member of the team (and the society) thanks to his finally hitting bottom. As far as I'm concerned the moral obligation of the Giants here is to help him with his legal and psychological troubles, and to help him recognize what he needs to do to get back to the NFL (whether with the Giants or elsewhere) in good standing. This sure isn't Jerry Jones saying Pacman is a good kid so who cares if he has been a little trouble, we want him on our team.

Jim, I think that will be the Eagles' defensive game plan with the addition of some attempts to collapse the pocket, but unless the weather is bad I don't see it working. And if the Giants catch them in a few blitzes where they can direct the blitzer out of his gap coverage there should be some big runs out there available for the backs. The Eagles' front seven is undersized to begin with. Get Jacobs to the second level of the defense and they will be in trouble.

Lastly, without Plax I think Gilbride would be smart to make sure to get a number of deep post routes and deep seam passes to Smith. He is going to generally be covered by safeties or nickel backs, and they will be assuming he's a possession receiver. But the guy has wheels and he can beat those guys downfield and the Giants could set the play up by having Hixon and Amani do outs where they take their cut about 12-15 yards downfield and don't allow the remaining safety to recover and get to the middle of the field in time to get to Smith before the ball. I can see a number of big plays being made this way.

The Giants are hurt, as Haz says (and others have noted), without Plax. But they still have plenty of weapons. And don't forget that all of a sudden they have successfully incorporated screens and swing passes into their repertoire. This offense is still "growing".

December 2, 2008 3:59 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

I think Bryan's point is fair to the extent if it were a T.O. say, we wouldn't care if he got 2 yrs, 3.5 yrs or 50 yrs.  He would be out of the giants' hair and that's all we would care about.  It is like when Shockey was here.  For the most part we focused on what made him a great contributor on the field and either ignored, rationalized, or did a cost-benefit analysis of his bad behavior.

I for one have run hot and cold on Plax since he came here.  In the first 2 seasons he was alternately great and dog lazy, but on balance nore good than bad.  Last year he was beyond sensational.  this year he has been a real disappointment.

I personally do not care for bad-boy atheletes and this organization's emphasis on character has always been a big plus in my mind.  My natural inclination is to say cut Plax loose and let him face the music.  But then I hear people like Eli and AP say how much they like the guy and I wonder if he is as bad as he appears to be.

Bottom line for now, he has a very experienced and skilled lawyer and he'll get the best deal that kind of representation can achieve.  The team will have to move on without him for the balance of the season.  If the stars line up just right and he is able to get back on the field this year, I would expect extra-effort from him.

December 2, 2008 3:59 PM
 

Nosh said:

Bryan-

I don't think it's simple enough to just say "Hey its the law."

I mean in Georgia up until 1996 I believe it was illegal to receive oral sex. Even from your wife!!!!

Just because its the law doesn't mean it's right.

December 2, 2008 4:01 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

And add me to the number of fans who wanted Kareem suspended for a game. Totally different responses to totally different circumstances.

December 2, 2008 4:04 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

Bryan, agreed that the law is the law, and I think what gets lost through all of this "cyber talk" is what people are really trying to say.  If taking a poll, I would bet that 85% of the people here think Plax should be punished in some way, what they dont realize is, if he is punished for what they are charging, he HAS to be given the mandatory time, and I think he will be given it.  So I am willing to bet that people have more a problem with the law then they do with Plax being charge.

However, in my opinion, the key word there is "given", just because he is given 3.5, doesnt mean he is going to SERVE 3.5 years.  I see him spending some time in jail (under a year) and the rest of it being a suspended sentence, complimented with a very substantial fine and lots of community service.  To say that Plax will be behind bars for the entire 3.5 years is a bit naive, the city has much bigger problems to worry about then Plaxico Burress' stupidity.

December 2, 2008 4:04 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

And note that I despised Shockey when he was a Giant just as much as I do now. And would be very upset if TO, or anyone, went to jail for a mandated minimum sentence for this crime unless he had a record that indicated he was a thug.

December 2, 2008 4:07 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

KD- and MWhite- I bought that up last week after the Cardinal Game. I said not to be suprised if Gilbride gets as many looks as Spags

December 2, 2008 4:09 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

I mean Gillbride is doing soo goood that he caused Jcharles to stop reffering to him as Killdrive AND change his own screen name as well :-)

December 2, 2008 4:10 PM
 

KD said:

WE were talking about Swiss Army knives the other day...This one costs $1400

www.hammacher.com/.../74670.asp

December 2, 2008 4:12 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

I think Bryan has a point about some of us saying that Plax is getting a raw deal but if it was TO or someone hated not on the Giants we would be like haha fire that a hole. Personally, if the situation was reversed I wish they would send TO a way for a long time...haha

I really hope for the best with Plax, but he was nowhere near the top of the list of my favorite Giants so I am not too worried about it.

December 2, 2008 4:13 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

JCharles changed his name?  I just thought he found some ADD medication and calmed down a bit

December 2, 2008 4:13 PM
 

Nosh said:

Georgia code section 16-6-2 provides a 1 to 20 year mandatory sentence for any adults consenting to "any sexual act involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another". Married couples are not excluded from this law.

Most states have repealed the law but it is still illegal in the following :

Florida

Idaho

Louisiana

Michigan

Alabama

Mississippi

North Carolina

South Carolina

Utah

Virginia

Puerto Rico

Hey the laws the law. Get a BJ in Alabama, you're doing 5-10. Felony son.

Yes, there are actually a few poor shmucks out there that have served jail time for getting a BJ. And I'm not talking about some pedophile sh#t. I'm talking about 2 consenting adults having oral sex. Is illegal in several states.

So please spare me the Law is the law crap.

December 2, 2008 4:18 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

Nosh... A 1-20 year range for a mandatory sentence.  Thats a pretty big range.  How do you think they pick the number?  The uglier the chick the bigger the sentence??

December 2, 2008 4:19 PM
 

jcrown92 said:

Lol I have committed a felony in 2 different states. haha that's great.

December 2, 2008 4:20 PM
 

KD said:

The Giants, who could place Burress on the Non-football Injury list once, are expected to announce a decision on his future later Tuesday.

December 2, 2008 4:21 PM
 

giantsfan said:

Haz, you wrote exactly what I wrote a few posts earlier haha.

December 2, 2008 4:23 PM
 

Krow said:

I can see it all in a few years... "Plaxico the Clown... available for birthdays and Bar Mitzvahs"...

December 2, 2008 4:24 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

Nosh, It's no wonder I don't like Georgia!  I never knew that.  

I am not JCharles, i am Charlie, the guy up in Canada that talks about swords and guns, etc.  But I did agree with JCharles on the Killdrive thing at the time.  I have gone on record since then that I have no further reason to complain about play calling.  I reserve the right to change my mind if the situation warrants it.  No pun intended to .17 cent.

December 2, 2008 4:26 PM
 

giantsfan said:

KD, I hate how that dumbarse refers to the Giants and Jets as Jersey/A and Jersey/B. Such a ***....

December 2, 2008 4:26 PM
 

KD said:

Plaxico Burress left Giants Stadium at 3:19 p.m., five hours and 59 minutes after he arrived.

He did not talk to reporters on the way in or on the way out

December 2, 2008 4:28 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

Krow would that be like "Homey the clown" from the show In Living Color?

December 2, 2008 4:29 PM
 

ThatsMyQuarterback said:

I dunno wulf... that "I am not JCharles" stuff isnt too convincing when you spell your user name exactly how JCharles would spell it haha

December 2, 2008 4:30 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

"Homey don't play dat"

December 2, 2008 4:30 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

TMQ "fogetabou'it"

December 2, 2008 4:31 PM
 

Terrence T said:

Damn Nosh.... i betta turn myself in. hope you guys on G101 will do a write up and support me as well...

December 2, 2008 4:33 PM
 

Krow said:

Hung... yeah, good call.  Homey... ha...

"Hey Homey... hey Homey.... tell us how you f'd up and lost all that money ... and now have to work as a clown.... yeah Homey.... tell us tell us"

*insert squealing children noises here*

"Kids ...it was football... and Homey don't play that"

December 2, 2008 4:33 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Bryan -

That makes more sense, but I still can't agree that everybody is playing favorites. A lot of valid points have been brought up on both sides, not just the side that says Plax should be out and he should go to jail.

December 2, 2008 4:34 PM
 

KD said:

So in New York, you can have all the anal you want, but can't bring a Glock to a club?

What's this world coming to?

December 2, 2008 4:35 PM
 

Nosh said:

Giantsfan-

Yeah, not only is the Jersey a/b thing dumb (I live in Jersey and have never had a problem with the Giants being called the New York Giants) but I also find Easterbrook a little arrogant. In an "Intellectual High-horse" sort of way. I still read him though just to see if there's any Giants stuff.

December 2, 2008 4:35 PM
 

Terrence T said:

KD thats what im sayin... reminds me of a Mike Tyson quote..."cant i get a blow job.." lol

December 2, 2008 4:36 PM
 

Krow said:

I'm willing to call us the Jersey Giants when they start calling the Cowboys the Irving Cowboys.

December 2, 2008 4:37 PM
 

Krow said:

You know... Ron Jeremy in a similar situation would have had his c'ock shot off.  17 Cent has to plead innocent or his fans will have no choice but to conclude that he's hung like a squirrel.

December 2, 2008 4:40 PM
 

giantsfan said:

Nosh, same here. Except I don't read much of what ESPN writes these days... after last year's bashing, hate, disgust, and disrespect toward the NY Giants expressed by the whole ESPN staff during the latter part of the season and the playoff run, I decided they're not worth my time.

December 2, 2008 4:40 PM
 

GIANTT said:

Nosh -re your list - Can you Imagine a train ride through some of those states - The headline would read "Nailed in 5 States "

December 2, 2008 4:41 PM
 

Nosh said:

KD-

I'm not saying Plax shouldn't get into any trouble. Or even that you should be allowed to bring a hand gun to a club. But I think the whole Mandatory minimum thing is stupid.

In my opinion these things should be done on a case to case basis. My point with the oral sex laws was to show that there are many dumb laws out their. That one probably being the dumbest.

And I think sentencing Plax to 3 1/2 years jail time would be dumb as well. 3-5 years probation seems fine. Or if you really need to send a message give him what I like to call "The Ahmad Bradshaw special" 60 days split over 2 years, and mad probation.

If you think Plax should spend time in jail I respect your opinion, but let it be your opinion and not "The Law is the Law" argument.

December 2, 2008 4:43 PM
 

Krow said:

Some of those States are dry too.  Can't get laid... can't even get a drink.  

December 2, 2008 4:44 PM
 

mwhite06 said:

I also just skim easterbrook, and peter king actually, to find where they mention the Giants.

December 2, 2008 4:45 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

Good lord no!  No booze and no blow jobs?!  Oh the humanity...

December 2, 2008 4:46 PM
 

mwhite06 said:

Nosh, you should update Ahmad Bradshaw's wikipedia page and add a section called "The Ahmad Bradshaw Special."

December 2, 2008 4:47 PM
 

Nosh said:

Krow-

"have no choice but to conclude that he's hung like a squirrel."

Hhahaha. Classic!

December 2, 2008 4:47 PM
 

Mike V said:

It is not surprising that the state of Utah is on that list.  I am very surprised Florida and Louisiana are on that list though.

December 2, 2008 4:47 PM
 

Krow said:

You know... on a serious note... the one thing NYC authorities ought to think hard about is how this could make the city look.

If I were 17 Cent... and it looked like I was going down... I'd be screaming "lynch mob" at the top of my lungs.  I'd make NYC the racism capitol of America.  How Wall Street bankers get billions for ruining the economy... but a brutha shoots himself in a club and goes to jail.  Man, they need to think hard about this... cause there's the potential for a good old-fashioned racial $hitstorm.

December 2, 2008 4:54 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Nosh - its a big country dude.  People in Georgia, and all over, deal with different problems and have different ideals and values than you and NYers in general.  That doesn't make them dumb.

And for everyone saying "why is Plax up for 3 years when killers get less?"  Why is Plax ONLY getting 3 when BJers can get up to 20???  

That's part of my point.  The comparisons don't work precisely because your only cherry picking your comparison against one other law or circumstance in one other state.

Again, if you don't like the law, I'm OK with that.  Get it changed.  But you can't not apply the laws just because your fav WR is implicated.  If he gets the time and you want to make the changes retroactive, as Georgia did, OK.  But to say "we have this law, but it shouldn't apply to people 'I' judge to be good," well, that's just not a very good system.  That's a system where people with power and influence can buy a way out of anything.  Nope, the law is the law as applied.  

December 2, 2008 4:55 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

It won't be like Rodney King, not in NYC, but it could spark more events in the future.

December 2, 2008 4:57 PM
 

Nosh said:

The list of states banning Blow Jobs is from 2006. It may have been updated since then.

Still if you ever think your having a bad day, just think of the poor guy in jail for getting head from a consenting adult, and know things could be a lot worse.

December 2, 2008 4:57 PM
 

Krow said:

Governor Pimp Daddy... no charges filed.  Plaxico Burress... prison.

I think they're playing with fire... and are going to realize it shortly.  

Right now Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the happiest NFL fans in America.  After Obama basically made them dinosaurs... here come da Mayor, and we back in bidness.

December 2, 2008 5:01 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Nosh - Ga. changed its laws, somewhat, after a 17 year-old got a life sentence, or 20 years or something, for getting one from a 15 year old.  That fell under both the law you reference, and molestation/child porn laws.  

Imagine being 17, facing like 30 years in jail for fooling around iwth your girl.  He was black and the girl was white.  I'm not saying it played a role, but you figure it out.  

That's certainly a situation where no one can get hurt (unless their are braces involved) and the law is stupid.

December 2, 2008 5:02 PM
 

Terrence T said:

hahaha...krow can you hear the conversation in the jail cell wit plax?... what you in here for? i killed someone! what about you... man i was at da club and i shot myself in da leg. lol! crazy stuff.

plax will neva live that one down. the D from the opposing team will be crackin jokes all day! watch out for 17 you know he dont care bout us...my man just shot himself! lol

December 2, 2008 5:02 PM
 

Krow said:

"Hey Plax... is that a gun in your shorts... or are you just happy to play us?"

December 2, 2008 5:04 PM
 

KD said:

Soon to be the Arlington Cowboys...

December 2, 2008 5:06 PM
 

12dan.S. said:

Bryan McCoy said, "unless their are braces involved"

LOL

December 2, 2008 5:06 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Plaxico "The Bullet" Burress

December 2, 2008 5:07 PM
 

Nosh said:

Bryan-

Yes I realize I picked the dumbest law I could find to argue your point. And make no mistake about it, the Blow Job laws are Racist, homophobic, christian, dumb laws. No offense to anyone on here if your Christian, Racist, Homophobic, or dumb.

I posted before I think the Mandatory minimum laws are dumb as well. I think with any prosecution, circumstances and a persons past criminal record should be taken into account.

And I do think they're trying to make an example of Plax. Which would probably benefit NYC safety as many people who once carried will be less likely to. But I also think it is unfair to Plax.

And come on man, how could you send anyone to prison who catches a 50 yard bomb in OT to beat the Eagles at the Linc.

December 2, 2008 5:09 PM
 

KD said:

Nosh, I don't think Plax should do hard time, and I don't think he will. I think everyone should carry a gun...would make for a very polite society. But if the D.A is on a rampage, and this seems like a pretty open and shut case, Plax could get the 3 1/2 and AP could too. Doubt it, but this has turned political. Ever read Bonfire of the Vanities? Gotta control the steam...

December 2, 2008 5:10 PM
 

Terrence T said:

Brian...that law i believed applied to married adults as well... its a dumb law. you cant be serious when you stick up for a dumb law like that. and it dont make sense that i can get 1-20 for head and plax gets 3.5 for carryin a gun and shootin himself. dumb again im not sayin he shouldnt get punished but jail...come on

December 2, 2008 5:11 PM
 

Krow said:

Kind of irrelevant for married people...

December 2, 2008 5:12 PM
 

Nosh said:

Bryan-

"That's certainly a situation where no one can get hurt (unless their are braces involved)"

Krow-

"Hey Plax... is that a gun in your shorts... or are you just happy to play us?"

Bang up job.

December 2, 2008 5:12 PM
 

The Real Bryan McCoy said:

Nosh - I take offense.  I'm all those things, and I'm sure you could find lots of people on this board who would agree with that.  

Just kidding.   Well, about the part where I am all those things.  I'm sure you could find those who think I am.

December 2, 2008 5:13 PM
 

Terrence T said:

Nosh you got me rollin right now...lol.... No offense to anyone on here if your Christian, Racist, Homophobic, or dumb...lol!

December 2, 2008 5:14 PM
 

KD said:

Don't do any of these things in NYC:

Women may go topless in public, providing it is not being used as a business.

You may not smoke within 100 feet of the entrance to a public building.

It is illegal for a woman to be on the street wearing “body hugging clothing.

Citizens may not greet each other by “putting one’s thumb to the nose and wiggling the fingers”.

A fine of $25 can be levied for flirting.

It is against the law to throw a ball at someone’s head for fun.

The penalty for jumping off a building is death.

New Yorkers cannot dissolve a marriage for irreconcilable differences, unless they both agree to it.

A person may not walk around on Sundays with an ice cream cone in his/her pocket.

Slippers are not to be worn after 10:00 Pm.

December 2, 2008 5:14 PM
 

Krow said:

Hello... Captain Redundent.

December 2, 2008 5:15 PM
 

GIANTT said:

Im not in favor of mandatory sentence laws because they will , at some point , come back to bite with unintended consequences , as we have seen by some of the examples thrown out here .I think a judge should have the right to use the sentencing rules  as guidelines as is appropriate in each case  . So , in a case like this , where the main thing hes really guilty of is terminal stupidity , let everyone sit down , decide he should miss some playing time to satisfy the League  so other players will think about their actions , also let the Giants save some money , IF THEY WANT TO - and let the authorities (read Bloomberg ) prove that nobody gets  away with it in NY- a suspension at least for the rest of the season -probation (some will want jail time ,this is the negotiation point  ) , community service etc etc

I think that this is how it will play out . Hopefully the NFL will do a suspension first , because this way the Giants can then say we did what the league made us do . Negotiate away from this mandatory law and bargain it so that this type of deal can be put in place.

December 2, 2008 5:16 PM
 

Krow said:

"Christian, Racist, Homophobic, or dumb"... was the reference for my "Captain Redundent" post.  So KD... put the shotgun back under the bed.  Yeah, both of them.

December 2, 2008 5:17 PM
 

KD said:

If you have been convicted of driving while intoxicated, you may never again apply for personalized license plates.

December 2, 2008 5:18 PM
 

GIANTS4LYFE said:

this incident makes me think about multi-platium artist T.I. Now T.I. was caught with 26 unregistered guns a little over a year ago and was looking at 10-12 years in the Georgia system.  However, he got it down to 366 days and 1000 hours of community service.  The thing is he still hasnt done his time, yet, but he's out making albums.  Just think thats bullshit if plax gets anytime for a pistol that he had and he hasnt been a convicted felon like T.I. is.

December 2, 2008 5:18 PM
 

Krow said:

Maybe 17 Cent can plead down to an illegal blow job?

December 2, 2008 5:18 PM
 

Krow said:

I heard the Revs. Jackson and Sharpton have already booked rooms... LOL.  They have to be thinking they just died and went to heaven.

December 2, 2008 5:20 PM
 

yanks092x2 said:

i couldnt agree more dan. extremely well put.

December 2, 2008 5:22 PM
 

KD said:

If 17 Cent does any time, he'll be giving lots of illegal blowjobs.

I think T.I. has the #1 song right now. I never heard of him before the other day. He was busted for taking posession of a fully automatic, gas-powered rifle, fully loaded and a bullet-proof vest.

December 2, 2008 5:24 PM
 

Krow said:

From PFT...

The National Football League has announced that six players have been suspended for violation of the policy regarding anabolic steroids and related substances.

"Saints running back Deuce McAllister, Saints defensive end Charles Grant, Saints defensive end Will Smith, Vikings defensive tackle Kevin Williams, Vikings defensive tackle Pat Williams, and Texans long snapper Bryan Pittman have been suspended."

December 2, 2008 5:24 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

How long are the suspensions, 4 games?

December 2, 2008 5:26 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

Here is a link:

www.nfl.com/.../story

December 2, 2008 5:27 PM
 

Terrence T said:

i like TI...but 26 guns...man that was crazy

December 2, 2008 5:31 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

Guess the Giants won't be playing their starters for long in the Vikings game.

December 2, 2008 5:32 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

The Saints continue to be the Giants' best friend

December 2, 2008 5:32 PM
 

Nosh said:

Krow-

Christian, Racist, Homophobic, and dumb were describing the Blow Job laws thats all.

Since the topic of the day is guns and Jail time. Anyone remember several years back when Jason Williams shot and killed his Limo driver? Did he do time for that?

December 2, 2008 5:34 PM
 

wr45171 said:

nosh nice outdated laws....those are just laws that havent been taken off the books...theres also laws out there about hitching your horse to city hall...etc.  

December 2, 2008 5:35 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

One is tempted to trade Plax to New Orleans for next years # 1,3,4,5 and 7

December 2, 2008 5:36 PM
 

wr45171 said:

Nosh...special laws...just for you....lol

STUPID LOCAL LAWS

In Ottumwa, Iowa, "It is unlawful for any male person, within the corporate limits of the (city), to wink at any female person with whom he is unacquainted."

In Los Angeles, you cannot bathe two babies in the same tub at the same time.

In Zion, Ill., it is illegal for anyone to give lighted cigars to dogs, cats, and other domesticated animals kept as pets.

In Carmel, N.Y., a man can't go outside while wearing a jacket and pants that do not match. << Note: this law isn't silly. Write your legislators today and get this PASSED in your area now!!>>

In St. Louis, it's illegal to sit on the curb of any city street and drink beer from a bucket.

In Hartford, Conn., you aren't allowed to cross a street while walking on your hands.

In Baltimore, it's illegal to throw bales of hay from a second-story window within the city limits. It's also illegal to take a lion to the movies.

In Oxford, Ohio, it's illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man's picture.

In Carrizozo, N.M., it's forbidden for a female to appear unshaven in public (includes legs and face).

In Pennsylvania it is illegal to have over 16 women live in a house together because that constitutes a brothel...however up to 120 men can live together, without breaking the law.

In Michigan, a woman isn't allowed to cut her own hair without her husband's permission.

December 2, 2008 5:39 PM
 

Terrence T said:

i carry a 9.5 glock fully loaded ready to pump a chick at any time!

December 2, 2008 5:41 PM
 

Nosh said:

wr45171-

Yeah they're very outdated except people actually still go to jail for them. ESPN did a story on a kid from Georgia who had consensual sex and got a BJ from a girl. The girl testified in court that it was consensual and had he not received oral he would have been fine. But because he got the BJ he did like 2 years I believe. Bryan mentioned it in an earlier post. I'll look for a link of the story.

December 2, 2008 5:42 PM
 

Terrence T said:

man wr...i was gonna bring a lion to the late show...guess i better cancel. aww shucks!

December 2, 2008 5:46 PM
 

Terrence T said:

its ashame

December 2, 2008 5:46 PM
 

Nosh said:

Love the outdated laws. They're funny until some unlucky guy goes to jail. Like this kid.

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

"When he was a senior in high school, he received oral sex from a 10th grader. He was 17. She was 15. Everyone, including the girl and the prosecution, agreed she initiated the act. But because of an archaic Georgia law, it was a misdemeanor for teenagers less than three years apart to have sexual intercourse, but a felony for the same kids to have oral sex."

December 2, 2008 5:48 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

ff72y said: "among those was Ocho Cinco, whom I have always thought of as a guy trapped in a terrible situation more than a trouble-maker"

Hmmm ... if Tom and Jerry think the same thing, that would be a very intriguing offseason possibility.

December 2, 2008 5:52 PM
 

Nosh said:

wr45171-

So I guess this years hand walking festival in Hartford will be canceled. Damn! We'll have to move it to bridgeport.

December 2, 2008 5:52 PM
 

Dirt said:

Thank god for the NYC law on guns. Now there is no way in hell a criminal thug can get their hands on a gun.

December 2, 2008 5:53 PM
 

STU H. said:

Now you guy's are worried about getting a BJ in some states and if you can have sex in NY but can't carry a Glott into a public place, wake up you aren't killing anyone with a dick, but you sure can kill someone with a gun.

December 2, 2008 5:55 PM
 

Terrence T said:

Nosh...man you're on fire! lol. man i was practicin all year for that! life aint fair...

Original G whats up wit you callin ff55yrs ff72yrs! lmao.... in all honesty ff55yrs that was your name last year and another year has passed so you should be ff56yrs.lol

December 2, 2008 5:55 PM
 

Krow said:

Nosh... whatever law they may have thought up in that Georgia swamp... it was racism.  He was black... she was white... and down there that's still enough to send you to prison.  Go Falcons.

December 2, 2008 5:56 PM
 

giantsfan said:

WELL IT'S OVER FOR PLAX!!!!!!!

SUCKSSSSS

"Giants receiver Plaxico Burress has been placed on the non-football injury list and suspended for four games by the Giants for conduct detrimental to the team."

as per Ralph V.

www.nydailynews.com/.../giants

December 2, 2008 5:59 PM
 

Dirt said:

Plax out for the season, non football injury list

December 2, 2008 6:00 PM
 

Dirt said:

KD,

Paolantonio just said he'd get his $1M bonus on Dec 10, WTF?

December 2, 2008 6:03 PM
 

KD said:

17 Cent suspended 4 games by Gmen

December 2, 2008 6:03 PM
 

giantsfan said:

I beat all u guys to it!

December 2, 2008 6:04 PM
 

KD said:

Damn y'all are fast.

How long till an update up top?

December 2, 2008 6:06 PM
 

giantsfan said:

This is terrible news for the NY Giants. I hope they can recover from this...

December 2, 2008 6:08 PM
 

Fitz said:

This is getting crazy,Every time I turn on the TV its Plax,Pierce and Bradshaw.Oh  They're all terrible Human Beings,they are scum of the earth.Blah blah blah..I haven't even heard that we are a win away from clinching the damn NFC EAST..The media seems so sheltered..OK plax made a huge mistake..But since when do you become a bad person for going out with your buddys on a friday night..

Let me ask everybody something...If you were out with your friends, in the same situation as Pierce was in..Are you gunna try and help your friend get rid of the gun..Or are you gunna run away and report one of your good friends..Keep in mind that you were not hiding a gun that was used to hurt somebody,Nobody but the gun owner was hurt...It was a Mistake..

Now I bet 90 percent of people, in the heat of the moment, would do what they could to make sure thier friend doesn't get in trouble..When your in the heat of the moment like that you dont think about possible consequences,you just try to get the situation under control...

So im sick of everybody getting on Pierce and Bradshaw for going out to a club on a friday night..Its Crazy....If anybody should be mad at them its they're wives,I believe they are all married LOL..

And by the way Plax is Suspended for the rest of the year..And yes I feel bad for him.I truly believe he is a good guy that has made some bad decisions..And this is just a sad situation..One week your getting a standing ovation at the Garden,and the next your career is likely over.And your looking at a possible 3 year Sentence..What a nightmare for him...Now we have to move on,and Guys like Hixon,Smith,and Moss have to step up.

December 2, 2008 6:08 PM
 

Dirt said:

By the way, with the Plax stuff, the 6 substance abuse suspensions today, damn, the NFL is not looking very good today.

December 2, 2008 6:09 PM
 

Nosh said:

STU-

The Blow Job laws were only brought up because people were arguing Plax should do 3 1/2 because it's the law. They were just used to reference that Laws can actually be quite dumb.

In this sense I actually am very glad there are strict gun laws in NYC, I just don't think that it should automatically result in 3 1/2 years. You have to look at all the factors involved, including the persons criminal history.

No doubt Plax should and will get in some trouble. But 3 1/2 years seems a little steep for shooting yourself in the leg, even if you didn't have a permit.

I say at the most he should get the "Ahmad Special"(60 days split over 2 years) but then again, I'm no judge.

O.K. I'm done talking about Plax, guns and Blow jobs for the day. See you fools later.

Is there a game this sunday? Ohh yeah were playing the Eagles.

December 2, 2008 6:10 PM
 

Nosh said:

O.K. well now we can move on from this topic. Can he play in the playoffs or is he done for the year?

December 2, 2008 6:12 PM
 

KD said:

I wouldn't put any of my "good friends" in a situation where they had to hide a gun for me. And I'm not sure they are all "good friends". They are co-workers.

Either way, Plax is done in Blue.

December 2, 2008 6:12 PM
 

KD said:

I can see theOnion headline now: "Plaxico Burress drafted first overall by the NY Penal System"

December 2, 2008 6:13 PM
 

KD said:

Nosh, I think that depends on the NFL. Goodell could suspend him indefinately, pending the outcome.

December 2, 2008 6:15 PM
 

Fitz said:

They Already said he is done for the Regular season and the Playoffs.

December 2, 2008 6:17 PM
 

giantsfan said:

Nosh, he's done for the year.

He's placed on the non-football related injury list, which is like the IR, except without pay I think.

December 2, 2008 6:17 PM
 

Fitz said:

December 2, 2008 6:18 PM
 

Dirt said:

This will not be resolved in 5 weeks; no way he suits up in mid-January.

December 2, 2008 6:18 PM
 

KD said:

Amani Toomer just grabbed a pen to sign a new contract...

December 2, 2008 6:18 PM
 

Fitz said:

“As we have said since Saturday morning, our concern is for Plaxico’s health and well-being,” Mara said in a statement released by the Giants. “This is an important time for him to take care of his body and heal up and also deal with the very serious legal consequences and other issues in his life. When I spoke with Plaxico he expressed great remorse for letting down his teammates.”

“Our concern all along has been for Plaxico the person, not Plaxico the player,” co-owner Steve Tisch added. “We are here to support him and his family as he recovers from his wound and deals with some serious issues.”

This is the second time this season he’s been suspended for conduct detrimental to the team.

December 2, 2008 6:19 PM
 

KD said:

The New York Giants waited until the very end of the day to announce that Plaxico Burress will in fact be placed on the "non-football injury list." This is effectively a suspension that removes him from the Giants roster for the remainder of the regular season and the playoffs, and (unlike injured reserve) allows the Giants to not pay him, because his injury did not happen on the field (i.e., he was acting like an idiot.)

Also, Sal Paolantonio is reporting on SportsCenter that Antonio Pierce is "not out of the woods" when it comes to the NYPD and any possible legal ramifications from his involvement in this mess. There will be plenty more on this tomorrow, but it looks like Plaxico Burress has played his last game for the New York Giants—and maybe his last NFL game for a long, long time.

deadspin.com/.../plaxico-burress-suspended-for-the-rest-of-the-season

December 2, 2008 6:20 PM
 

giantsfan said:

Just go here for the latest news:

www.nydailynews.com/.../giants

I wonder if Plax is pissed at the FO for fining, suspending, and essentially not paying him. Or is he matured enough to understand he brought this on himself and is disappointed in himself?

What do you guys think?

I hope he gets through this and learns a lesson. If he cleans his act up, I, for one, will love to see him back with the Giants next year.

December 2, 2008 6:22 PM
 

Terrence T said:

good ? nosh...i was goin to ask the same thing

December 2, 2008 6:23 PM
 

giantsfan said:

Here's an interesting spin on things...

If the Giants decide to cut him after this year, I don't know how much money they will recover, but whatever it is, it should GREATLY increase the chances of resigning both WEBSTER and JACOBS. Which are HIGH PRIORITIES. I hope Amani stays too, I believe he will.

December 2, 2008 6:26 PM
 

Terrence T said:

truely a sad day

December 2, 2008 6:27 PM
 

Terrence T said:

nah, i dont see amani in a giant uniform nxt year

December 2, 2008 6:28 PM
 

wr45171 said:

the only way i dont see Toomer back is if he walks away...I think he and the team will realize they need his leadership with the young guys.  Thats assuming that we dont go out and spend alot on a FA.  (which we all know the Gints dont do)  I think he will take a cut in salary and will be a wonderful coach figure...I have officially changed my stance of wanting him to retire.

December 2, 2008 6:42 PM
 

KD said:

Toomer is definately on the Giants next year. They are dealing with this s--tstorm and have a classy, productive team leader and lifelong Giants player. They give him a phat new deal.

giantsfan, I think Plax is a little more worried about going to prison, at least I hope he is. Giants had no choice but to suspend him without pay.

December 2, 2008 6:43 PM
 

wr45171 said:

KD...I wouldnt say he gets a phat deal.  But I do feel he will still be in blue.

December 2, 2008 6:47 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

This is th 1751st comment i am currently posting regarding Burress. The boards have been on fire since sat...

December 2, 2008 6:50 PM
 

KD said:

wr45171, phatter than any of us will ever see. Toomer will get $4 mil a year for say 3 years. Call it an acting like a professional for the past 12 years bonus

December 2, 2008 6:54 PM
 

The Original G Man said:

“As we have said since Saturday morning, our concern is for Plaxico’s health and well-being,” Mara said in a statement released by the Giants. “This is an important time for him to take care of his body and heal up and also deal with the very serious legal consequences and other issues in his life. When I spoke with Plaxico he expressed great remorse for letting down his teammates.”

Let's hope that last part is true.

December 2, 2008 7:02 PM
 

KD said:

Although Burress' alleged possession of a gun concerned possession outside of his home, Burress may argue that the spirit of Heller nonetheless justifies his decision to carry a gun: he had a gun because he felt that he needed protection.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

December 2, 2008 7:04 PM
 

jahmyrr said:

WOW and in the writers round table just before the season, i was told (by David I believe) I was crazy for wanting to trade Shockey and Burress...... guess I wasnt so crazy was I? ;)

December 2, 2008 7:20 PM
 

KD said:

Plaxico Burress drafted first overall by the NY Penal System

Dec 2 (KD News) - Plaxico Burress was overjoyed after being drafted first overall in the 2008 Penal System Draft. Competition was fierce for the 31-year old New York Giants star receiver, with the Federal Penal System looking to add a target for the incarcerated Michael Vick.

"I can't express my gratitude with the New York Penal System for taking me #1 overall," Burress said immediately after being chosen. "I hope to bring Rikers Island to a championship this season."

After being drafted, Burress signed a 3 1/2 year contract, which included a $0.35 signing bonus.

Lewisburg Federal prison had offered New York two first round picks in next years draft for Burress, but the offer was declined.

New York still needs a quarterback, however, and hopes to acquire the services of Jim Druckenmiller, convicted of rape in 1999.

December 2, 2008 7:34 PM
 

mtlgiant said:

Plex has been suspended for the remainder of the season as he should be now we can all move on.

PS The Mayor is a bute, he should keep his mouth shut and let due process take its course.

December 2, 2008 7:37 PM
 

KD said:

Fines in the NFL typically mean a player loses a paycheck for each game he misses. In Burress' case, that would mean roughly $206,000 per regular season game.

December 2, 2008 7:45 PM
 

rpotto18 said:

I work in one of the worst sections of the Bronx and I don't even carry a gun.  

December 2, 2008 8:01 PM
 

Rich23 said:

Well now it's official that Plaxico Burress's days as a New York Giant are over since the Giants put him on the non injury reserve which ends his season that means the Giants have had enough of his shenanigans which I don't blame them because if they kept Burress around it goes everything against what the Giants stand for. I have no problem trying to repeat as champs with Hixon, Toomer, Smith, Moss as the 4 WR because since Plax has not been playing Eli has been playing on an even higher level almost just about MVP type of form.

Also since Plax is finished Toomer has shown us that he still has a lot left in the tank and if he keeps it up and says he wants to come back Jerry Reese will no question bring him back for another 1 year contract, Hixon has done an excellent job playing in Plax's spot and I think he's even a bigger threat for Eli to throw to down the field. Also without Plax we can finally see what Sinorice Moss and Mario Manningham can do.

But, for next season I still think now that Plax is gone that the Giants will have to go after a #1 type WR once again so what do you think the Giants should do? Trade up in the draft next year to grab Crabtree? Look in the trade market to trade for Andre Johnson? Boldin? Calvin Johnson? All 3 of those WR are unhappy with their teams and want out? I would really love to try to grab Andre Johnson to tell you the truth imagine him with Eli man it will be a slaughter house. Or the other option will be to try to sign Houshmandzadeh?

Well I think the Giants will have to look in the trade market because with the Giants have to re-sign Jacobs, possibly Ward and Corey Webster they won't have the money to pay Houshmandzadeh

December 2, 2008 8:04 PM
 

sheridan said:

I know I'm late to the dance but I must say this is one of the most well thought out articles I've ever seen on here. It really raises some good points. That said I think it's a very sad day for the Giants and Plaxico. But I think this is the only move the team could make and it was warrented.

I do however hold out hope that Plax can somehow avoid the litte trolls henchmen and stay out of jail. If that can happen I would love to see him back in blue next year. Unlike many others I'm not ready to give up on the guy and I hope the Giants continue to look at him as part of the family.

December 2, 2008 8:07 PM
 

KD said:

sheridan, I doubt Plax is back. He isn't family, he's an employee. And he's an employee who shamed the franchise. Mara/Tisch can't be happy having their employee splashed on the front page of most newspapers across the country and the lead story on ESPN for the past three days. If they can, they will get out of the contract and dump Plax. Sad but true...

December 2, 2008 8:18 PM
 

Mike V said:

I've already said that I want Plax back on the team next year, provided he can sidestep Mayor Cockroach and his goons.  

That said, if he unfortunately is not back with the team, draft somebody.  No FA signings and no trades.  TJ Housh is one of the more overrated players in the game in my opinion.  I always laugh when I hear people say he's Cincy's best receiver.  He doesn't have the ability to stretch the field like Plax.  Boldin is good, but he's going to be 29.  Arizona would charge an arm and a leg for him anyway, considering he's under contract for two more years.

December 2, 2008 8:30 PM
 

sheridan said:

KD

Just get a feeling he's gonna be back if he can sidestep jail. As stated he's really liked by and looked at as a good person by teammates and I think the ownership of this team.  

December 2, 2008 8:48 PM
 

wrdag said:

just a quick thought on the domino effect of losing plax. no more hixon returning punts or kick-offs. sinorice moss will be an important  player starting this week. i'm sure we will see him on kick-offs and he will be asked to stretch the field in the passing game. watch this week and u can bet early in the game that darth vader (dawkins) will be in the box until we make them pay with deep completions. the less you see him at the line, pre-snap, the better Eli is playing. As i mentioned yesterday, its a copycat league and last week the skins did what will be viewed as a decent job against the run by stacking the box, look for this stategy until we burn people for trying it.

December 2, 2008 8:48 PM
 

KD said:

Sheridan, that has become a pretty big IF. I doubt he does time, but even if he pleas down and gets probation, he'll be suspended by Goodell. Then he's 33. In the meantime the Giants have to find another WR. Be it Hixon, Whosyourmomma or some draft pick, 17 Cent will have been replaced by the time he's allowed to play again. He's toast in NYC.

December 2, 2008 8:54 PM
 

sheridan said:

I think the max Goodell  should give him is 4 games to start the season next year. That plus the 7 he'll miss this year is more than adequate considering the Tank and Pacman suspensions. I say he's playing by week 5 in 2009. And I think he deserves to be.

December 2, 2008 9:03 PM
 

KD said:

that all remains to be seen. If I knew the future, I'd be able to pick a f--king Mon night game...

But I am guessing that plax is done for 2009 at the very least, assuming he isn't serving breakfast at Rikers for the next 4 years.

December 2, 2008 9:07 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

What a sad day. We should all be basking in the Glory of the Greatest 12 months in  The History of The New York Football Giants. Instead we are dealing with this ***.

Thanks Plax

December 2, 2008 9:36 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

DEMO is right. Look at this...

Actually, if anyone is concerned as to if this will affect the Giants mentally. Consider the fact that the Eagles were able to overcome a much worse issue in the locker room regarding TO... Few teams I have ever seen are as confident and mentally tough as these Giants. They will overcome it

December 2, 2008 9:45 PM
 

Mike Force said:

Giants say Plax season officially over.

December 2, 2008 9:53 PM
 

Mike Force said:

“Dr. Rodeo believes Plaxico would be out at least four to six weeks with the gunshot wound,” Reese said in a statement. “I had two conversations with Plaxico today, and it was obvious that he understood the magnitude of this situation. He knows that we are here to support him and help him get healthy.”

On Tuesday night, Richard Berthelsen, the general counsel of the National Football League Players Association, said the union could become involved in the case.

“We don’t think the Giants’ actions are consistent with the collective bargaining agreement,” he said in a telephone interview from Washington. “We will be discussing the matter with Plaxico and his representatives.”

NY Times:

When asked what might have violated union rules, Berthelsen said, “Let’s leave it at that.”

The suspension is a dramatic development for a team that has an 11-1 record and is widely considered the best in the N.F.L. The incident at the Latin Quarter nightclub and its aftermath have been harshly criticized by, among others, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg.

December 2, 2008 9:56 PM
 

Krow said:

Next update should read "Plaxico Burress Crucified"...

December 2, 2008 10:01 PM
 

wrdag said:

what a shock the union is getting involved...is there anything short of televised murder by a player that the union would not come to defend. wouldn't be refereshing to see the union say : the guy messed up big and the team's actions are  reasonable in light of the transgressions and the damage its caused his team and every other player in the league we represent.  As predicted the union will fight against the suspension to recoup the "game checks". While I actually agree with the Giant brass, it bothers me we will end up paying him for some games he can now never play.

December 2, 2008 10:13 PM
 

Dan Murphy said:

Sorry guys, just had to add that I got blasted for my "Plax will become a Giant problem" article.  This is one area where I hate to be right but I need some apologies here.  When I posted that, some even suggested that I quit the site.  Well, what about now?  I am never this self-important but some of you need to redeem yourselves.  Maybe Fan for 55...???

December 2, 2008 10:14 PM
 

Fitz said:

Look at what..

December 2, 2008 10:14 PM
 

Krow said:

I wonder... if 17 Cent is in Rikers by summer 2009... and we have Bradshaw down in Virginia enjoying his traditional penal vacation... that could give us two players on the active roster in prison at the same time.

I bet that would be a new NFL record.

December 2, 2008 10:16 PM
 

Fitz said:

Dan Lol,,u did get hammered for that..Im still upset about this..With out this guy we dont even get to the SB last year..and it seems like most people forgot about that..Its pretty sad how the public will quickly throw you to the curb..All these so-called Giant fans I here on the radio and quotes in the Newspaper.ABout not only getting rid of Plax but Pierce too..Its ridiculus...O well, What have u done for me lately I guess..

December 2, 2008 10:20 PM
 

Krow said:

Dan... I know the feeling.  Last week I got trampled like a WalMart greeter for suggesting that our WR corps wasn't wonderful... and that we might need to draft or trade for a wide out.

I said that Plax had taken a trip on the crazy bus... and was promptly ridiculed.  Muahhahahahaaaa the fools; I'll destroy them.

December 2, 2008 10:21 PM
 

Mr. CoryAhh said:

Tell bloomberg to stfu. Why dont he catch all the people with guns shooting each other in all the 5 borough. The dumbass that has police running around catchign people for no reason cause they need to meet a quota. Stupid ass mayor tell him to go shoot himself

December 2, 2008 10:22 PM
 

Dan Murphy said:

Krow,

I have a good memory.  If I remember correctly, you had the first comment and you agreed with it so we're cool.

Alos, you're right, especially now, about the WR's.  With Toomer's future uncertain and Burress, well, you know that story, we need some help there.

December 2, 2008 10:23 PM
 

Dan Murphy said:

Bloomberg is a turd.  What a weakling using a highly public situaton as a platform.  What a boob.

December 2, 2008 10:25 PM
 

Fitz said:

YEa,Im pretty down on Bloomberg,Whats his next move,to not let the Giants have a parade if they repeat..He should just shut up and worry about his re election

December 2, 2008 10:27 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

And I believe on the game preview or thread... I forget... I proclaimed first that he was done as a Giant. I remember DEMO second my thoughts. Everyone else wanted to kill me, particularly TroyThorne. Either way, were fine without him I believe. Guys will step up this week against Philly. I just know it

December 2, 2008 10:43 PM
 

wr45171 said:

Fellas fellas fellas....if any of you were lucky enough to foresee this then great for you and kudos to you..  However we dont need a reminder.  In other words dont break your neck sucking your own dick.  hahaha

everyone here predicts *** and most of us are wrong in some aspect.....but come on we dont need reminding that you were right....save that *** for your ole ladies.

December 2, 2008 10:55 PM
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