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To Rest or Not to Rest? Giants Again Face End-of-Season Decisions

What a luxury it is to face these decisions.  After several seasons of mediocre play and futility, the New York Giants have played themselves into a spot in which we can write some of our own story.  First, since this is my first thread since our thrilling victory on Sunday night, I want to say what a pleasure this season has been.  To continue to build on last year’s improbable run despite all of the injuries, adversity, and uncertainty is amazing.  We are putting together one of the best years in Giants history and dynastic traits continue to emerge.  The number one seed is a precious commodity in pro football and, for the first time since the 2000 season, we will gear up for a home playoff run.  I hope to expect a similar result as 2000 - well, minus the Super Bowl.  So I just want to point out the significance of our position.  For some reason that I just can’t realize, if the Panthers had won that game and went on to be the number one seed it just wouldn’t have seemed right.  The Giants have spent the whole season kicking butt and taking names.  It is good to see the Gods of Football inflict some justice.

For the second season in a row we now have a quandary:  Do we rest our men?  There are many variables that affect this decision.  You have to take into account the following:  the health of your players, the mental state of your team, and your responsibility to the rest of the NFC’s teams.  Let’s take a look at each of these.

Player Health
The best thing to happen to Brandon Jacobs this year were the games he missed due to injury.  With Jacobs on the shelf for a few game total, Derrick Ward and Ahmad Bradshaw failed to match his contribution and made very evident the need to resign Jacobs to a long-term contract.  Don’t let the recent game by Ward get you too excited.  While that was a great effort by Ward, he is allowed to shine like this because of Jacobs.  The mere presence of Jacobs gets teams out of a tackling mentality.  I believe that this has a trickle-down effect on the defense.   Couple that mental edge with a physical tiring from getting ran over all game, defenses don’t have a chance no matter who is running the ball.  The point here is that Jacobs in vital to us winning football games and he is not 100%.  Do we give him the week off, play him 1 quarter, or ride him like every week?  Joining Jacobs as questions marks will be Justin Tuck, Barry Cofield, Aaron Ross, Domenik Hixon, Kevin Boss, Fred Robbins, and Kareem McKenzie.  Also, as additional preventative measures, do you let Eli “Iron” Manning go out there for a quarter and then sit him to avoid an extinction level event?  How devastating would a Manning injury be to this team; I don’t even want to think about it.  What to do with these guys?

Mental State of Team
Two words:  Last season.  That post-season run we had last year was simply a continuation of the last regular season game.  That game, be it a losing effort, was the most important game of the season.  In that contest, the Giants found their confidence and belief.  Being unsure of the team that we had last year, I was a proponent of resting key players - man am I glad I was wrong.  The team hadn’t proven that they could even stand in the same circle as the infamous Patriots.  With nothing (seemingly) to gain, I did not want to risk having all of our soldiers for the upcoming battles.  Well, not only did that not happen, we gained so much more than I expected.  We stood with the best team (in term of wins) of all-time and played with ferocity, vigor, and remarkable purpose.  While we couldn’t pull that one out we ultimately got what we wanted - we procured a tangible identity and an unassailable confidence that carried us into the history books.  So, we are left with a similar situation:  a meaningless game at the end of the season.  What is a defending Champion to do?

League Responsibility
We have been in other team’s shoes.  We have been in a position in which we need help to get into the playoffs.  I remember in 2002 that we were in a heated race with the Saints and Eagles for one of the two wild card spots.  In the last week of the season, we needed to beat the Eagles and have the Saints lose to the Bungles, errrr-Bengals.  We took care of business in Philly (despite Tiki’s three fumbles in that game) and the Aaron Brooks-led Saints lost to a horrible Bengals team.  We got in, the Saints did not and everything was gravy until the San Fran meltdown.  While those games were meaningful for all involved in the playoff race that season, the point is that some teams need help to get in.  Do teams have an unsaid responsibility to the rest of the NFL to play their starters, plan like it is business as usual, and take the field with an expected intensity.  With teams such as the Vikings, Bears, and the Eagles dependent on (or at least will be effected by) the outcome of this game, is there an inherent responsibility that comes with the territory?

My Take
We are in a unique spot because not playing the banged-up guys would give them two weeks off due to the bye week.  I say bench the injured.  There is no need to put Jacobs, Tuck, and Cofield out there when that time could better be spent recovering and studying film.  To me, it would be ridiculous to play any of these guys for more than a series.  We literally have nothing else to play for so sit them down and get them physically ready for their next opponent.  But Murph, what about keeping them mentally ready?  Let’s get something straight, this is not the regular season Giants of 2007.  This Giants team doesn’t need a “keep your players in game mode” game. This is one of the most mature and intelligent teams in the NFL and if the last 12 months have not reflected that, then what have we proven? Last year, yes…this year, absolutely not. Take two weeks off and come to play. Coughlin, Spags, and Flaherty won’t allow complacency or a lack of preparation to ensue.  The Giants, especially after getting back on track last Sunday against Carolina will be focused for the playoffs.  Lastly, as far as responsibility goes, screw the other teams jockeying for position.  A team sets out with one goal…to reach the playoffs and, hopefully, get to the Super Bowl.  Once you accomplish this, it is not your responsibility to look after the bottom-feeders.  “The Giants have a responsibility to play…”  shut up!  Give me a break with this stuff.  We have a responsibility to our team, organization, and the fans to do whatever is in the best interest of this team.  Responsibility you say?  I’ll tell you what to do...why don’t you play well enough so you don’t require welfare from the teams who handled their business during the season?  Win more games!  The only time I agreed with the “responsibility” argument was last year’s game against New England.  We did owe the NFL to stand in their way.  I didn’t feel so at the time but now I see the importance of what we did and the decisions that we made. 

Regardless of what we decide, I want you all to know how proud I am to be a Giants fan.  We have been begging since the 90’s to have a consistently good team.  We now have that, so let us all enjoy it.  I also want to point out how great it is to have interacted with all of you guys this year.  Some of you are crazy and illogical at times but we all share the same, identical want:  to have the Giants beat the piss out of everyone else.  You guys are great.  Happy Holidays to all of you.

 Note:  Check out H. Kiswani's Big Blue Awards for 2008

Comments

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Jim Stoll said:

Murph,  I largely agree.  The following people should absolutely rest most of the game:  Robbins - chronic shoulder; Tuck - lower leg; Ross - concussion; Jacobs - knee; Hixon - ankle; Mckenzie - back?

Of course if you do all that you are ceding the game and then the question becomes why play any starter?  You absolutely cannot leave Eli in harm's way, and that really becomes an issue if you sit both McKenzie and Hixon.

Jacobs we can afford to sit because we do have 2 pretty good backs behind him even if they did not really show it in Dallas.  They should ride Bradshaw in this game as well to preserve and protect Ward.

Defensively, one could argue for sitting the entire D-Line other than Kiwi; but if you do, how do you stop Peterson?The biggest weakness on this team is lack of quality depth in the front 7.  We may get a real good look see as to what that means this week.

December 26, 2008 9:18 AM
 

Rick021 said:

Great article Murph. I totaly agree with you that Jacob's greatest contribution is the mental effect he has on the opposing defences, just look how uneffective the whole offence was when we were missing him. I also believe that this was Plax's greatest contribution to the team too, but alas, I think we have seen the last of that.

This year's final game has very different implications than last season's. Last year it was proving to ourselves that we had what it takes to compete in the playoffs, even if we ended up losing to the pats. This year is different however; I think the potential negative effects of this game, a bad loss or even worse injury, must outweigh the positive effects of proving, once again, that we are the dominant team in the NFC. I hope that Coughlin takes this into account before making his final decision on who plays Sunday, and how long they play for.

December 26, 2008 9:21 AM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Agree Murph-Sit anyone that is hurting. Tuck, Jacobs, Robbins and Mckenzie. Even Hixon. Let McDougle, Alford, Douzable, Kehl, Manningham, Moss, AB, Ware,and Koets get some snaps against a quality, Playoff calibre opponent and see if they are capable of contributing this season in the playoffs. Dont play Eli more than the first qtr and rotate the other Olineman out so they only pay about 70% of Snaps. Work Ruegamer in at Center and Guard and Boothe in at Guard and Tackle.

December 26, 2008 9:51 AM
 

wr45171 said:

I HATE SITTING STARTERS.....I just wanted to say that but I think we definitly have to sit those that are nicked up.  The game should be used as a tweaking game to see some of the younger players in action against a playoff team.

December 26, 2008 10:54 AM
 

wr45171 said:

an interesting tidbit about the bungles...

www.profootballtalk.com/.../no-tag-for-tj

December 26, 2008 10:56 AM
 

Krow said:

K... I'm starting to think that Mark Herzlich, OLB from BC, is going to be our #1 pick.  He's solid... has the intangibles... smart... can play inside or out... and that Boston College connection is difficult to resist.

Unlike Sintim... who I also like... Herzlich can play immediately.  He also has the look of a team leader who can take over from AP eventually.

December 26, 2008 12:10 PM
 

GIANTT said:

Win or lose this weekend ,Its a question of attitude coming out of the game as it was last year against NE in the regular season . If we win then everything looks good . If we rest our injured and the subs play a decent game then our attitude will be ok . BUT if we lose badly , then there will be a bunch of naysayers and second guessers (I wont mention any names ) and many who will question coaching decisions not to play the starters .

I wont second guess , and I know that in the long run its better if we rest the injured , but I hate losing a game because someone is not playing .

So having said that , Im going to keep my fingers crossed

December 26, 2008 12:40 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

Krow - Last I heard Herzlich was leaning heavily towards staying in school. If he comes out that'd be great though because he just gives us another option.

December 26, 2008 12:53 PM
 

Krow said:

Too bad if he stays.  His stock is high... and it's a hell of a gamble.   Not to mention one less year earning NFL salary.  

December 26, 2008 12:55 PM
 

GiantBuzz said:

Herzlich is my boy from high school and he wont even tell me if he is coming out. He is on the fence.

December 26, 2008 1:10 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

I read an interview of his a couple months back where he talked to some former BC players like DeJuan Tribble and Cherilus and they all told him to stay in college and enjoy it. This is his first real good year so his stock would actually rise quite a bit if he could repeat it.

December 26, 2008 1:20 PM
 

KD said:

In addition to his four long plays, Hixon leads the Giants with an average of 13.7 yards per catch, and his 39 catches for 534 yards rank third on the team. In the six games the Giants have played without Burress this season (including one in Arizona, where Burress lasted three plays), Hixon has 28 catches for 391 yards and a touchdown.

That would project to 74 catches for 1,042 yards for a full 16 games.

In other words, he's playing at a Burress-like level. With Hixon teaming with Steve Smith (55-554-1) and Amani Toomer (46-564-4), the Giants have reason to be confident in their ability to have a productive passing game without Burress.

www.nydailynews.com/.../2008-12-25_in_plaxicos_absence_domenik_hixon_is_cat.html

December 26, 2008 1:34 PM
 

rich said:

my take is this...jacobs, who is arguably more important to this team than anyone but eli, sits the entire game...he doesnt play a snap.

robbins plays a couple of series or can also sit the entire game, it doesnt matter too much either way. he needs to be rested.

other than those guys, and i guess maybe ross with the concussion, everyone should play. i sure as hell dont want to see eli out there behind a makeshift o-line.

either play the game to win or rest ALL important players. the only guys who REALLY need the game off are jacobs, and probably robbins and ross.

December 26, 2008 1:37 PM
 

axr29 said:

i agree, anyone who is hurting even a little, sit em down. Let the other guys play, but not so much, rotate other guys in.

Off topic: anyone know if this site sells real jerseys? they have an 100% money back gurantee but im still skeptical. Anyone have any insight?

jerseyquest.com/nflaurenewyo8.html

December 26, 2008 2:09 PM
 

Krow said:

Burress played at a Burress level with the D slanted in his direction and double teamed.  

December 26, 2008 2:17 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

Notice how that article doesn't mention TDs....

December 26, 2008 2:23 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Dan I agree 100% on your take concering this weeks game. Jamie Dukes on NFLN was flipping out about how much of a hypocrite TC is for saying that he "owed it to the integrity of the league" to play his starters last year and not doing it this year. First off, last year is totally different. We were completely healthy and had NO REASON to let the Pats waltz through our house on their way to a 16-0 season. This year we have alot of players who are questionable. So, as you perfectly articulated, the only thing TC "owes" is the right decision for his team, organization, and fan base. Not to mention Mr Dukes.... Coughlin never said what he was going to do this week with his starters. He said that he was going to play to win while doing what is medically recommended.... Hard to argue with that.

Also, you brought up a great point about the whole momentum thing. This team is significantly more mature than last years all things considered. If you look at this week, we didnt exactly have momentum or health for that matter, yet we pulled it together and won.

December 26, 2008 2:27 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

And I agree with Troy about that article. If nothing else, and this is pretty important. Plaxico gave our division opponents Fits. His 7 tds in 6 games vs philly. His 10 catches for 133 against Wasington, and his career day against Dallas where he had over 140 and 3 tds. The Red Sox get guys JUST to best the Yankees, and Plaxico did just that to Giant division rivals. He was a very significant asset in that respect.

December 26, 2008 2:32 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

The dallas carrer day being last year... but you get the idea

December 26, 2008 2:32 PM
 

Krow said:

Anyway... I always get a kick out of the folks that tout the college experience.  Sure, playing ball at a bigtime NCAA level is a 24-hour party.  But you're trading a year of your NFL career... and taking a big chance on an injury.  Once in a while it makes sense... if you figure your stock to rise dramatically... or if you have maturity issues.  But who can ever be sure that an extra couple semesters at Football U is going to help?  

Naw... it's a short ride.  Take the money.  If the "college experience" was so great why do players almost never go back and finish their degrees?

December 26, 2008 2:34 PM
 

KD said:

Hey, the Pats didn't rest any starters last year, and they still won. But lost in the SB...

And if the money is there, you take it. If I was a college Junior and someone wanted to hire me with a $5 mil signing bonus, I would have taken it. Look at Leinart...He'd have been #1 overall, but he stayed in college, knocked up a basketball player and ended up going #11. That cost him $40 mil + child support.

December 26, 2008 3:13 PM
 

KD said:

NFL star Tom Brady has proposed to supermodel Gisele Bundchen. And the Victoria’s Secret runway favorite said yes.

Brady, 31, proposed to Brazilian-born Bundchen, 28, as their jet took off from Teterboro Airport in New Jersey – with her parents onboard, TMZ reports.

www.nydailynews.com/.../2008-12-26_report_nfl_star_tom_brady_engaged_to_sup.html

December 26, 2008 3:17 PM
 

Krow said:

Brady is looking more and more like he's winding down his NFL career.

December 26, 2008 3:19 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Great write-up Murph.

December 26, 2008 3:22 PM
 

KD said:

Brady will soon suffer from Sehornitis...Marry a hottie and watch your career fall apart.

December 26, 2008 3:24 PM
 

Krow said:

The Pats might be smart to sell him for a boatload of picks... and stick with Cassel.

December 26, 2008 3:27 PM
 

KD said:

I think it is funny that Brady proposed at Teterboro...That means that someone has a private jet. I assume it is Gissele, since she makes way more than he does. And Teterboro is right down Rt 46 from my fav hot dog joint Hanks Franks. Wonder if they stopped in for a couple Texas chili dogs and an egg cream. Doubt it...

December 26, 2008 3:28 PM
 

Krow said:

As a public service to Jet fans... it's fast approaching the time where you have to show your love for Brett "ManPig" Favre... or he'll retire.

We're going alphabetically... so Monday after the last game all the "A's" please present yourselves to the Meadowlands... line up in an orderly fashion... and proceed to kiss Brett's a$$ one-by-one.  All the while crying and whining and begging him to stay.

This is all part of his contract... so no b'itching.

December 26, 2008 3:30 PM
 

Krow said:

Once Brady's career is done she'll drop him quicker than Cheryl Crow did Lance Armstrong.

December 26, 2008 3:31 PM
 

rich said:

what would a team even give up for brady? he may very well be done (from a couple of medical reports i've heard). apparently the initial procedure was screwed up, and that may be the reason he never gets back on the field.

December 26, 2008 3:37 PM
 

Krow said:

I so wanted to see how he did when he didn't know what the defense was going to do.  Now we'll never find out...

December 26, 2008 3:45 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

If I were thae Pats, though its not a decision I would like to have to make. I would trade Brady. At 31, with complications requiring 2 more surgeries, Cassel throwing for 400 yards 3 times and once in the snow, and Cassel being several years youger... The upside is there

December 26, 2008 4:02 PM
 

Krow said:

You just need a chump to give you a nice package for him.  Detroit comes to mind... especially if Pioli goes there.  Then there's always the Eagles... everyone's fool.  They took Samuels off the Pats hands.  The Jets like old QBs too.

December 26, 2008 4:04 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Think of it... If you quarterback shreds his knee at age 31 and has several surgeries just to get it fixed right, even if he was 3 superbowls into his carrer.... Would you not trade him? ***IF*** you had a guy who was very consistent, 4 years younger, and very coachable. If you look at the Giant franchise, we struggled badly between the Simms and Manning years because of inconsistent qb play. If a guy were to come in near the end of Simms carrer and do really well at a significantly younger age... In hindsight... Would you not have taken him? Simply put, If you can get 4 more years of consistent qb play plus SEVERAL first round picks.. TRADE TOM BRADY. Simply saying that "oh hes our guy, hes gotten us to the promised land before" is a dumb excuse

December 26, 2008 4:10 PM
 

Krow said:

Except his value is a bit diminished... you really need someone to bite and bite hard.  But Detroit's 1 gets you Crabtree.... the Eagles would probably give a 1 and a 2.  That would translate to 2 good defensive players.  Yeah... need to find a sucker first.

December 26, 2008 4:17 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Yeah... But they are certainly there. If your the pats and you use the first round picks soundly, imagine how much younger you team is. You could be looking at success until 2016 or 2018 as opposed to risking you team going down the tubes on the shoulders of an ineffective Brady. Granted, there is risk involved the other way as well, but I think the roof on the reward is higher. Not to mention.... Risk is what this business is about

December 26, 2008 4:23 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

ross and wilkinson are out

boss jacobs cofield robbins hixon phillips all game time decisions

December 26, 2008 4:29 PM
 

gianthinker said:

I'd play Eli, Toomer, Tuck, Kiwi, Pierce, Webster and Butler only for the 1st quarter.  Boss, Jacobs, Cofield, Robbins, Ross and Phillips wouldn't dress.  ANYONE who is nicked up would not play past the first half.  I dont care that I'd be playing the JV as long as I didn't allow further injury to happen.  I know we played last year but that was for different reasons and in a different situation.  At this point, I'd play it very safe and take a butt woopin' if thats what happens with playing our backups.  This is a game for guys like Michael Johnson, Madison, RW, Wynn, Alford, Blackburn, Boothe, Bradshaw, Hagan, Darcy Johnson, Kehl, Manningham, Smith, etc to perform.  This is not a week to go out and lose starters before going into the playoffs IMO.

December 26, 2008 4:40 PM
 

gianthinker said:

Steve Smith would come out the second I see him take a big hit too.  I think he's a huge weapon come playoff time.

December 26, 2008 4:42 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

Trading Brady would be stupid as hell and they would never do it. Cassel is a nobody who doesn't produce like Brady does. Anyone who heard Brady's knee is bad enough he won't play again has heard wrong. He'll be back next year even if it takes him a majority of the season to get back to 100%, sorta like what Palmer did when he destroyed his knee a few years back.

You can say what you want about Brady being a "system QB" and whatever but he fits in New England. Two things you have to remember about Cassel. First, he's a free agent. So if the Pats trade away Brady, they'll have to pay Cassel a boatload of money to stick around as he'll be a hot commodity around the league (IMO he's just the next Billy Volek). Second, the Pats have had a cupcake schedule this year. Seriously, look at the defenses Cassel has gone up against (KC, SF, STL, OAK, AZ, BUF, SEA, DEN, INDY). Awful.

December 26, 2008 4:45 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Funny how they got that schedule after an 18-1 season, which would lead me to believe that it wont be much different. Also, I never said he wouldnt be back next year. His injury is nothing like Plamers, he had one tore 1 ligament. Brady tore 3, and then got an infection which would not have occured if he had gotten the type of arthroscopic surgery that he had said that he did. Something has been covered up regarding his surgery and its alot more complicated than you think. On top of all that, he is 31. Believe me, their better long term solution is Cassel.

December 26, 2008 4:53 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Funny how they got that schedule after an 18-1 season, which would lead me to believe that it wont be much different. Also, I never said he wouldnt be back next year. His injury is nothing like Plamers, he had one tore 1 ligament. Brady tore 3, and then got an infection which would not have occured if he had gotten the type of arthroscopic surgery that he had said that he did. Something has been covered up regarding his surgery and its alot more complicated than you think. On top of all that, he is 31. Believe me, their better long term solution is Cassel.

December 26, 2008 4:57 PM
 

Dirt said:

The Pats are gonna franchise Cassel and make some awful team trade for him. Besides, there's no guarantee that Brady will be healthy for next year (he did have complications with his surgery). So until they see Brady out on the practice field in the spring, they would be going into training camp without a quarterback if Cassel left. And if Brady comes back, then Cassel goes on the block. If you can't move him, you eat a high salary for a year.

Not saying he's worth the tag, not saying he's not, just what I think will happen.

Kyle, please remember Tom Brady won 18 straight games last year, with most of them not a contest. Not to take away from Cassel, but think of some of the plays last week: Moss takes a 2 yard pass for 70 yards because the defense gave up, etc. Arizona had no interest in playing.

With fear of diminishing the importance of a knee injury, how much will it really impact Brady? He's not a runner, he stands in the pocket and keeps defenders away with sheer fear of him lighting up their blitz. He is possibly the smartest quarterback I have seen in my lifetime.

December 26, 2008 5:00 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

he had torn 1 sorry about that...

December 26, 2008 5:00 PM
 

Dirt said:

And about their schedule; 14 of the 16 games were decided years ago, the other 2 on the last day of last year's regular season. It's not their fault they've played some awful teams (4 of which the Giants were fortunate to have played as well).

However, with the aformentioned awful schedule, the Matt Cassel-led Patriots have the possibility of not even making the postseason, with a roster that more or less has 45-50 players from an 18-1 team the year before.

December 26, 2008 5:05 PM
 

Dan Murphy said:

Three things:

1.  Cassell is not getting franchised.  Franchising QB's is never a good idea.  Do that and you run the risk in the future of free agent QB's and newly drafted stars avoiding signing with your team.  QB's don't like being franchised and it is a bad policy to start.

2.  We will play to win this game:  make no mistake about it - no matter who is on the field.

3.  Good for Tom Brady.

December 26, 2008 5:06 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Im not saying that Tom Brady isnt great. All im saying is that Cassel, AT THIS POINT IN HIS DEVELOPMENT, is better than brady was. With that in mind, I would take the chance. If you look at the example I used regarding the Giants above... Imagine how many more years of consistent qb play we would have had if a young guy came in at the end of Simms carrer (circa 1991). Peyton Manning has been the most consistent qb this decade, and he only had one year similar to the one Brady had last year. With all that has gone on with Tom, he will NOT have that type of season again. Not to mention, did you see the play Cassel made on the last play of the game against the Jets to Moss? The guy is not a loser who cant produce... Ill take my chances with a healthy youngster who has the ability to do that for years to come.

December 26, 2008 5:08 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Dirt, consider the fact that their defense is without Asante, Harrison, Thomas, and they have a 4th string running back. Seymore has also been a question mark most of the time. So there is something significantly different about those "45-50" guys from last year.

December 26, 2008 5:11 PM
 

Krow said:

The Pats are showing some age too.

December 26, 2008 5:12 PM
 

Dirt said:

Dan,

When have the Patriots cared about signing free agents? The Patriots make moves that are best for the team. Hell, Brady signed a below-market deal to stay with the Patriots. Samuel wanted money, so did Branch, Vinatieri (for Christ's sake!!), and they all left.

If you want to win, you sign with the Patriots. If you want money, you go elsewhere. That's the way it's always been with them.

Speaking of Patriots, Belichick was on Sirius 124 recently and said some pretty insightful stuff about the draft. He was talking about how the draft is a lot easier now because more teams are running a pro set offense, so there's a lot less trying to figure out how an option guy or whatever kind of non-pro style offense will fit into the NFL.

December 26, 2008 5:15 PM
 

Dirt said:

Kyle,

I'll give you that the team is beat up. But great teams are supposed to overcome. Jeff Hostetler won Super Bowl XXV. When the backup comes in, he is supposed to win if the entire team is good. It is, after all, a team game.

December 26, 2008 5:20 PM
 

Dirt said:

I don't see how you could be so certain that the Pats wouldn't franchise Cassel. The team would have to know with great confidence that Tom Brady is good to go in the first week of March. That is 2 months and change away.

A non-exclusive rights tag would allow some team to, if they believe as Kyle does that he's got the skills, to give 2 first round picks to get him. Think the 49ers, Lions or some other desperate team wouldn't make that move?

The Patriots are in a position of strength, and I can't see him just leaving without getting something in return, especially with questions at that position. The Patriots always find a way to find a sucker.

December 26, 2008 5:30 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Ok... But the Giants had their whole defense healthy that year, and their running back. So your right, it was the team which prevailed in that sense, and the team which has been decimated in this sense... Outside of Brady. It isnt as simple as a Hostetler- Cassel comparison. If you wanna get technical, The pats already did that in 01'.... With tom Brady. But the rest of the team was there

December 26, 2008 5:32 PM
 

Dirt said:

Kyle,

You're right, Cassel/Hostetler isn't a great comparison. But it's more to make a point that the Pats had an incredible, almost perfect team last year, and losing a few guys should mean they're still pretty good, not awful.

Out of curiosity, do you think the Pats, with their current roster and coaches, are not the best team in their division (forget about records and playoff destiny)?

I think they are the best, and I think they should have won some of these games they lost (10 points against a .500-at-best San Diego, 15 points against a then-shaky Indianapolis, 10 points against the Steelers at home).

With that being said, they have won games they should have won, and lost some that they likely would have done better with Brady.

December 26, 2008 5:47 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

Kyle - Sorry, completely disagree with you. You don't dump a 31 year old QB (31 is NOT old AT ALL for a QB, especially nowadays) who has won you multiple Super Bowls and is a year removed from putting up the best season by a QB in NFL history for a guy who got his first EVER start at QB 16 weeks ago and has produced moderately well against some of the worst defenses in the league. That just is a terrible plan of action and the Pats would be ridiculed for that for years.

Dirt - Nobody is going to trade for Cassel if he's franchised. If a team is interested in Cassel and the Pats franchised him, they'll just move along to someone else. That would leave the Pats with the highly paid Brady, Cassel who is being paid like a top 5 QB, and newly drafted Kevin O'Connell. That's A LOT of money tied up in one position and would also be a terrible plan of action. The Lions need a QB and they'll get one....in the draft.

December 26, 2008 5:58 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Dirt- I do agree that they are the best in the division. But as the Fins' demonstrate... Not the most consistent.

Troy- We are painting radicically different pictures of the two guys. I acknowlege his great season, but as with all great qbs... those type of seasons dont come around that often, just look at Peyton. Brady had that season, and then has had a year off from football bacause his knee was destroyed. I mentioned that as well as flashes of what Cassel can be (ala the Jet game on the last play). As good old Ernie Accorsi said, "If youve seen it, then its there." You have yet to acknowlege my points the typical fall off from a legendary season, as well as Cassels potential. I would like to know your thoughts on that

December 26, 2008 6:09 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

**about the typical fall off** I should really revise my posts lol

December 26, 2008 6:10 PM
 

Dirt said:

Troy,

The Pats are $20 mil under the cap next year, and the franchise tag will likely cost $11 mil. Costly, yes, but I firmly believe they have questions about Brady's ability to play in 2009. If you believe that the franchise tag is not an option, then your choices are a) big questions at QB, or b) resign Cassel. I think you would agree that resigning him is the least likely.

And as far as "no team will trade for Cassel", how do you know that? Sure, a team might not surrender two first round picks, which is what it would take to simply sign Cassel from the Pats if he got a non-exclusive rights tag, but that's just to sign him without having to negotiate a trade.

In a trade, what's stopping the Pats from trading him for a 2nd rounder or 4th rounder or whatever else they want?

Let's remember the Pats franchised Asante Samuel in 2007, so they're not new to the concept.

December 26, 2008 6:16 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Wow, things are getting out of hand around here.

If anyone thinks that Coughlin will stick a bunch of backups out there on the O-line while leaving Eli in the game (unless his instructions are to hand the ball off on every snap), he's not thinking straight. If McKenzie doesn't play, and he shouldn't if he's more than just a touch dinged up, then Eli will be out of there after the first half, if not sooner.

And they should rest all the injured players. Murph is 100% correct. They owe NOTHING to the rest of the league. Hell, the NFL stuck them with a Week 4 bye, and if you don't think that makes the run the Giants went on even more remarkable than it may seem now, think again. Why do you think they're suffering more than their share of injuries late in the season? Let the league fend for itself. The Giants should protect their interests, nothing more or less.

I'd like to see very little of Hixon, Boss and Smith and lots of Manningham, Moss and Johnson.

I look forward to seeing plenty of Ware in this game. Sure, Ward and Bradshaw should get some real work (I would sit Jacobs, period) but Ware should be getting 30-40% of the carries.

On defense we need to see a lot of the backups plus plenty of minutes for Kehl (and how about some DeOssie)? The interesting thing should be that the Vikes MUST win, so we'd see our depth guys against an offense trying to score every way possible. It would be interesting to see.

And come on guys, get serious about Tom Brady. How can you actually suggest the Pats trade him and retain Cassel? I don't even know how to respond to that except to say that guys who were a lot worse than Brady were excellent quarterbacks into their late 30's in the NFL. And among plenty of others, Marino and Namath were pretty fair QBs long after having very serious knee problems. Tom Brady is a HOF quarterback who probably has 6-8 good years left in him, the first 4-5 still at the very highest levels in the league. You don't even think about trading a guy like that away. Paoli would laugh in your face at the thought.

And finally, on Sunday we should all finally be PLEASED to see RW handle the punt return duties.

December 26, 2008 6:21 PM
 

Dirt said:

FF55,

That is an excellent point about the Week 4 bye.

If the Bears didn't play prevent defense and let Matt Ryan complete a 40 yard pass to the sideline to blow a lead with 10 seconds left, they'd control their own destiny this week. Or even if they won some of the other games too.

December 26, 2008 6:27 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Trade Tom Brady b/c you have Matt Cassel? Lol what the hell?

December 26, 2008 6:30 PM
 

Dirt said:

In the spirit of the Brady/Cassel discussion, if I were running the team, I'd play Carr all day long. 1, to keep Eli healthy, and 2, to get Carr some reps incase of the unthinkable.

December 26, 2008 6:33 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Haz- I know it sounds dumb, but dont you think i have made about as strong an argument for it as there could possibly be?

December 26, 2008 6:34 PM
 

Krow said:

Man you guys are tough.  Kyle's just kicking around a concept on a dull day.  Food for thought.  He's not advocating it.  Just a little 'what if'...

December 26, 2008 6:35 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Exactly Krow, Im throwin an idea out there and im getting lols in response. I have made a few good points, outside of the straight up comparison between the 2 guys and no one has countered any of the points. If you wanna refute my idea then do it... Thats why I posted it, but dont just laugh and say no

December 26, 2008 6:38 PM
 

Dirt said:

Kyle,

If it makes you feel any better, I have harassed this girl at work about the possibility of Brady getting traded for the last couple months. "Are you going to burn your Brady jersey when they trade him to the Lions and Matt Cassel is your franchise quarterback?" It's certainly not without merit, I just don't happen to agree. Although I hope you're right, because it would be hilarious.

December 26, 2008 6:45 PM
 

Dirt said:

On a related note, it isn't 100% a great thing to have a first round bye. 3 weeks between meaningful football for your team is somewhat irritating. Hence, we're arguing about the Patriots!

December 26, 2008 6:47 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Okay, let's see.

Tom Brady on one knee that is 85% of normal and the other at 100% is so much better than Matt Cassel at what can reasonably be projected as his peak that there isn't a GM in the NFL that would bet otherwise. In fact, at that level Brady will almost certainly be one of the 3-5 best quarterbacks in the NFL for the next 5-6 years.

Matt Stafford at Georgia projects out to be a superior quarterback versus Cassel (he makes NFL throws better than Cassel, an admittedly better athlete but IMO, lesser QB), and he could be had for a few draft picks while you retain a HOF quarterback to mentor him while giving yourself the best chance to win now.

And then, well, come on...this is Tom Brady we're talking about. Why not suggest trading Eli for three high draft picks, take Stafford (assuming he comes out) and also get a stud linebacker and safety? It makes as much sense. Great franchise quarterbacks come along rarely. When you have one you simply do not give him up.

December 26, 2008 6:53 PM
 

Dirt said:

FF55,

As I keep repeating, no one knows how bad his knee is. It's a closely guarded secret, and they're going to keep those cards real close. (Unreleated, Sirius 124 was talking about how the Jets haven't reported a hamstring injury in 3 years. That's obviously BS. Teams aren't straight forward about injuries.)

Why would someone with the lady killing potential of a Tom Brady get engaged with conspicuous timing of Cassel performing well? A humorous angle, but who knows, maybe he's done? Highly doubtful, but who knows.

And that's why the 1 year insurance policy for tagging Cassel is the answer.

And if Matt Schaub can be had for two 2nd round picks with 2 games on his resume, how can anyone argue that someone wouldn't offer at least something for Cassel.

Matt Cassel, enjoy either $11M next year in New England or a long term deal somewhere else.

December 26, 2008 7:02 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Kyle -

It's not going to happen man - just think about the risk/reward you are talking about. First of all - which NFL G.M would dare trade away a guy seen as one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history - when the guy has at least six good years left in him?

Second - Matt Cassel is a good football player - but you don't trade away a guy having a hall of fame career because you have Cassel who has won you a few games and might get you into the postseason. Sure the Pats are a good team, but with Brady they are a great team.

And I don't even think Brady is the best quarterback in the league, to me that's Peyton Manning.  

I just think it's ludicrous to think the Pats should consider dealing him - UNLESS his knee is a huge issue and could really end his career in the near future.

Otherwise - no way you trade a hall of fame caliber quarterback away under any circumstances.

December 26, 2008 8:22 PM
 

KD said:

This is a Pats discussion now?

They won't franchise Cassell unless they intend to trade him afterwards, which I think is the smart move. Franchise him and trade him to whatever team hires Josh McDaniels.

And they won't trade Brady, what with the 8 win differential they had with him, opposed to without him.

December 26, 2008 9:03 PM
 

Fitz said:

Nice Write Up Murphy,,Also Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all..

Since there is alot of this Cassel,Brady talk..Is anybody else getting the feeling that somebody is gunna make the mistake and overpay like crazy for Cassel?I do.

Lets be real,this guy is playing with the best skill players in the league...Moss,Welker,Good O-Line...Anybody could put up decent numbers with that group..But you see what having a great QB can do, and what an average at best QB can do..THe average qb can get you 9-10 wins(cassel)..The Great QB(Brady) gets that team 12 plus wins easy with the schedule they had this year..

So while its nice to see a career backup have some success and be due for a nice fat check this offseason..If im a GM im gunna be pretty careful throwing the boat at this guy.He still has to prove that he can play and be succesful on a team with less talent then the Patriots,because obviously wherever he does go there wont be a Moss,Welker,and an O-Line that he currently has..

December 26, 2008 9:25 PM
 

KD said:

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (AP) -- Cornerback Aaron Ross is going to miss Sunday's game against the Minnesota Vikings due to a concussion, and the New York Giants have listed at least four other starters as 50-50 at best

Kevin Boss (concussion-ankle) was listed as doubtful on the injury report and halfback Brandon Jacobs (knee), offensive tackle Kareem McKenzie (back), and defensive tackle Barry Cofield (knee) were questionable.

December 26, 2008 9:48 PM
 

KD said:

Kevin Dockery will join Corey Webster as the starting cornerbacks.

December 26, 2008 9:50 PM
 

Jim Stoll said:

ff,  your prescription for resting certain players is not good for my 13-3 prediction.  the giants may not owe the league but they owe me.

i think tc plays everyone who is not really hurt at least one series into the 3d

ross is already out

freddie may  as rest well

you cant rest mckenzie and play eli

jacobs i think will rest

ward plays until he gets his 52 yards which could be a quarter a half or the whole game  braddie should take over from there

i dont think ware touches the ball unless it is as a kick returner which id really like to see

December 26, 2008 9:51 PM
 

KD said:

IRVING, Texas (AP) -- Wade Phillips will be back as coach of the Dallas Cowboys next season, and Jason Garrett will remain in charge of the offense, regardless of whether the team makes the playoffs, club owner Jerry Jones said Friday.

And he said it vehemently.

"The coaches are in place. I've said that. How can I be any clearer?" Jones said. "Look, I've said that our coaching staff, as far as I'm concerned, is in place. I just want to make the statement rather than answer questions, because your questions imply certain things that I don't want to imply.

December 26, 2008 10:29 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

The argument for playing starters who aren't really injured (beyond the dings that are typical of this time of the season) is simple, and it has NOTHING to do with what is owed the rest of the league.

If a player has three full weeks between games (from Sunday night against the Panthers to the Sunday they play their first opponent in the playoffs) there is a good chance he will lose his football "conditioning" and his timing and sharpness. That is really what Coughlin has to balance against the need for rest, rehabilitation and some time to rev up the internal engines that these guys have worn down over a 12 week period without rest since the bye week, plus the risk of injury.

I would generally err on the side of playing these guys, but there are a number of cases where I think the risk/reward analysis tips in the other direction. Clearly, guys recovering from real injury should not be thrown into the breach. Guys who are just dinged up and tired should play at least a half.

But if, for example, the team needs to rest the O-line then obviously Eli must be pulled. And hopefully the offensive game plan does not call for many 5-7 step drops, and when there is one it must be out of max protection with only 2-3 receivers out in patterns and Eli told to get rid of the ball after 2.5-2.75 seconds no matter what.

And if I were Jerry Reese I would be pounding the table to see plenty of playing time for Kehl, Goff (if he can go), DeOssie, Moss, Manningham, Johnson, Ware, Alford and McDougle not only to save the starters from the pounding but to evaluate my guys under real game conditions. It's a GREAT opportunity to see how these guys do when the opponent is playing for its life so will go 100% on every snap.

December 26, 2008 10:48 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

I don't want to spend any more time on the bloody Patriots but I have a feeling that Cassel will prove to be a terrible pickup by some GM who badly overpays for the next "hot" backup who is projected to be the answer to a team's need for a franchise quarterback.

Ask the Browns how that worked out for them.

December 26, 2008 10:52 PM
 

KD said:

Mangini listens to rap:

"I don't have that active of a social life," he said with a smile. "It's pretty much here to home. In terms of radio or any of that stuff, the stations I listen to aren't talk radio. Sometimes it's NPR or a little rap on the way home. It's not heavy sports talk."

December 26, 2008 11:05 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Haz- I do agree with you on Peyton Manning. Best quarterback in the NFL

December 26, 2008 11:36 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

This is interesting...www.nj.com/.../new_york_giants_will_risk_show.html

....And certainly an approach I would agree with. It seems as if the Giants will play all healthy starters for 4 quarters

With the possibility they'll face Minnesota again in the postseason, one would think the Giants would not show any of their best stuff and keep things basic -- or, as game plans are often described in the preseason, "vanilla."

But even with an opponent that could be taking notes for a future meeting, Giants coach Tom Coughlin doesn't seem likely to tone things down.

"That doesn't seem like how Coach Coughlin would play the game," Amani Toomer said Friday before adding: "They didn't tell us we're holding anything back so I took it for granted that we're going to play (like normal)."

December 26, 2008 11:42 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Also, I dont think the Giants would have to worry about playing The Vikings again if we beat them. I cant see the bears losing to houston if they know that Min. Has lost earlier on in the day. Not to mention.... After what Minnesota did to us the last two years, wouldnt it be sweet to knock them out of the playoffs?

December 26, 2008 11:45 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

FF55 - I agree about Cassel. Like I said, IMO, he's the next Billy Volek. Quality backup that comes in when needed and plays well but just isn't starting quality. I think Cassel's career is a backup and at best a Matt Schaub clone (aka completely average). I believe Goff was put on IR, was he not? It's entirely possible I'm making stuff up so don't quote me on that.

Also, no team is giving up two 1st rounders for Cassel if the the Pats franchise him. I think the only team dumb enough to do that would be the Lions and they're going to take Stafford in April.

December 26, 2008 11:52 PM
 

KD said:

I think a lot of guys will sit. I am thinking of taking the Vikes -6 1/2. Backup O-Linemen = David Carr. Jacobs won't play much. Tuck won't play much. I am pissed that the Giants are on the same time as Boys@Eagles. I want to see Romo fall apart and the Boys lose.

December 26, 2008 11:52 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Have to agree with the Cassel - Schaub comparisons. I think he's an average quarterback on a average/solid football team.

Kyle -

I think the argument can also be made that Drew Brees is a better quarterback than Tom Brady, I'm not sure that Brees is but it's certainly close.

December 27, 2008 12:13 AM
 

STU H. said:

The Giants should rest as many players as they can for as long as they can. This is a meaningless game for them. However, this is not Coughlins MO so we will have to see what he does and who gets injured. I think Carr has to play at least a 1/2 because he needs to get the feel of being on the field in case something happens to Eli. No way should they play Jacobs and if any of the others mentioned are not at least 90% sit them.

December 27, 2008 12:21 AM
 

Kyle Langan said:

KD- Boys are on at 4:15

December 27, 2008 12:31 AM
 

KD said:

Kyle, you are correct. I figured that since the Giants were in Minny, it was a 4 pm game. Or I should say that I assumed. Glad I get to watch both games. I am more fired up for the Boys@Eagles than I am for the Giants game...

December 27, 2008 12:41 AM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Agreed. For those worried about Dallas coming here and beating us in the divisional round (admittedly my worst nightmare), that would require Tony Romo not to choke in 3 consecutive games... Aint gonna happen

December 27, 2008 12:46 AM
 

JD_in_Dallas said:

Tom Brady is GAY and he's just trying to butch up by trying to marry my mental side piece (she doesn't know it) :-)

All these comments and only two times (Dirt & KD) was the infamous name David Carr [keep the applause down] even mentioned.  I'm actually excited to see the DC 3.0 perform well with a good team.  What will the league think if we play mostly backups for a majority of the game and still win in dominant fashion?  I'm looking forward to that ESPECIALLY since the Vikes have given us heartburn in our last few meetings.  

Like a lot of you, I'm really excited about the Philly game.  I just hope McNugget and Co. put a total beatdown on Dallas (who hasn't won the last game of the season since Clinton was in office).  I will make the perfect  late December bookend to the last game in the Texas Toilet (hole in the roof).  I just loved the fact that they requested to play the Ravens in that game thinking they would win... hahaha!

Go GIANTS!!!

December 27, 2008 2:08 AM
 

TroyThorne said:

If the Eagles have to lose and let the 'Girls in, I at least hope McChoke is wearing his PF Flyers. I DO NOT want Ware breaking Strahan's sack record and he only needs 3 to beat it, something he's completely capable of getting. Perfect scenario would be Ware getting shut down in an Eagles win. I've got my fingers crossed already.

December 27, 2008 2:45 AM
 

KD said:

Yo, if Tom Brady is gay, I want to be that kind of gay. I think my girl is cute, but Gizelle is in a completely different stratosphere.

December 27, 2008 5:09 AM
 

Krow said:

It's always hard to tell about celebrities.  By the time they're through with nose jobs, boob jobs, and lip augmentation it's difficult to figure out what's real and what's plastic.

December 27, 2008 7:08 AM
 

KD said:

She could be plastic and I'd still hit it:

img25.imageshack.us/.../20040915_gisele2.jpg

December 27, 2008 9:55 AM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Yeah Troy I would hate to see Ware get that record. I really hope that he doesnt get it. I also hope that Philly wins lol. I hate Dallas

December 27, 2008 9:57 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Hate to burst anyone's illusions, but not only is Brady one of the best-looking guys you'll ever see (and a really nice guy) but Giselle is not only "real" but even better-looking in person and unfairly smart. I had a conversation with her about development policy in the favelas of Sao Paulo in which she made some really interesting points (while I tried to uphold my end of the conversation while imagining what I'd like to do to her if given the opportunity). Not one of my best moments. Brady is as far from gay as you can get.

And he's the second best quarterback in the NFL. Haz, Drew Brees? Get outta here. I'll take Eli over him, and I don't even have to think before taking Peyton and Brady ahead of him. Maybe Cutler too.

December 27, 2008 10:07 AM
 

KD said:

FF72, you met Giselle Bundchen? And you talked about Brazilian development policy?

I'd have tried to steer the conversation in a slightly different direction.

December 27, 2008 10:13 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Don't like to start the usual QB controversies, but for my money I'd take, in order:

1) P.Manning

2) T.Brady

3) E.Manning

4) J.Cutler

5) B.Roethlisberger

6) D.Brees

7) T.Romo

8) P.Rivers

9) C.Palmer

10) M.Ryan

11) C.Pennington

I added that last guy (I was going to stick to 10) for Murphy's sake. How 'bout them Jets?

December 27, 2008 10:18 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

KD, for one of the few times in my life I was tongue-tied. I was just happy I wasn't drooling.

December 27, 2008 10:19 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

I've done some business with Bragy so I've actually met Giselle a few times. Believe me, any man who comes within a few feet becomes a blithering idiot. She's so hot it's ridiculous.

December 27, 2008 10:21 AM
 

KD said:

And I read that Giselle is dumb as a bag of rocks. But who can trust the press. S--t, I should be so dumb and make $50 million a year.

December 27, 2008 10:21 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Can we get back to football? I'm starting to get too excited about this recent topic.

My wife is quite a beauty, but there's beautiful and then there's unearthly. Giselle is not of the world I inhabit.

December 27, 2008 10:23 AM
 

Kyle Langan said:

I would take Palmer and Rivers over Romo. But change nothing else. Improvising can get you on the Sports Center top ten, but it wont get you far in the standings or in December and January.

December 27, 2008 10:24 AM
 

KD said:

Rivers is having a great season. It isn't his fault his D stinks. Same for Brees.

December 27, 2008 10:26 AM
 

KD said:

I met Mia Hamm like 10 years ago at a MBAA conference and I couldn't keep it together. If I met Giselle, I would totally unravel.

December 27, 2008 10:28 AM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Yeah its ridiculous how man pig made the pro bowl and not rivers. But then again, 2/3 of the vote is players and coaches and you know that everyone who plays defense voted for man pig....

December 27, 2008 10:29 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

KD, trust me, she's far from dumb. She started asking whether I thought Da Silva's policy of stockpiling foreign currency so as not to have to ever again depend on extraterritorial lending that comes attached with required fiscal policies made sense. Since I was thinking about whether I could get away with touching her arm at the time I think my answer left something to be desired. There are very, very few times in my life I've been mesmirized by women. The only two who have done that to me in the past decade are Giselle and Heidi Klum. They're both creatures who should make all breathing men (and even some who are not breathing) jealous of Brady and Seal. It doesn't get any better than those two.

December 27, 2008 10:32 AM
 

KD said:

I am very jealous of Seal. Dude has flesh eating virus and he's getting Heidi Klum?

Where the hell you meeting these women? You a shareholder in Victoria 's Secret?

December 27, 2008 10:39 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

The guy on my list who has really become a question mark is Carson Palmer. It's hard to tell how much of his problem is the knee and how much is the Bengals. I think he can still be one of the top five QBs in the league, but it's also possible that his injury caused him to drop off and he'll never be the same.

And Romo is very hard to rank. I don't like him in the clutch, but we have to remember he played much of this year with a badly-injured thumb. When he's "on" he's awfully good. I'm not sure he's a "winning quarterback" but he has a lot of talent and may still turn it around. If he doesn't he will be passed by guys like he's standing still. Two great rookies entered the league this season. I think Stafford is going to be the real deal. There will be others coming along. In a few years Romo will either be a highly-ranked guy or a middle-of-the-road player who can't make his team a winner. I wouldn't bet either way.

December 27, 2008 10:43 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Ha. Actually, my daughter works at the building where Victoria's Secret's HQ are located so I occasionally ride an elevator with a bunch of them (they all think I'm a "charming man"....beautiful woman-talk for someone nice but too old unless he wants to be a Sugar Daddy).

No, I meet Giselle because Brady and I have done some business over the years (he is a very nice young man even if I loved seeing him planted by our defense in the Super Bowl). I met Klum a few times through mutual friends who knew that she drove me wild and as a favor made sure we sat next to each other at a few charity dinners. After the second one I told them I didn't want to do it again because my entire evening was spent rolling over impure thoughts while reminding myself that I could ruin my life if I gave in to my overwhelming desire to put my hand on her leg under the table and the 1-in-a-billion chance that she responded occurred. Make that 1-in-a-trillion.

December 27, 2008 10:53 AM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Thats a good point ff55 about Romo. What do you think about the Dallas Philly matchup?

December 27, 2008 10:54 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Back to football. Here's an interesting question. Assuming David Carr plays the second half, do we want him to do well or not?

If he does well it would be comforting knowing that there's a sliver of a chance to do something in the playoffs should Eli get hurt. If he plays badly we have a much better chance of signing him again as the backup. I would love to have him back next season, and perhaps Reese could even get a 2-year deal done. He isn't 30 yet. He seems comfortable with his position right now. I'm sure he's getting the "Giants' love" that a lot of players talk about and feels some appreciation for the fact that they took him off the scrap heap.

What might work best would be a mediocre performance that includes a few successful plays to Manningham. We'd all like to see the latter have a good game so there's confidence in him if there's an injury in the next month or so (and so we have a good feeling about him going into next season). But I'm not sure what to root for in regard to Carr.

December 27, 2008 11:01 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

Kyle, I think it should be a good game.

Unlike most here at Giants101, I would be more concerned about meeting the Eagles in the playoffs than I would the Cowboys. I think their defense matches up better with us and they have broken the code as to how to allow Westbrook to practically beat us by himself. Whether Spags will adjust for that or not would be a question. He didn't do it three weeks ago. The Eagles are also a better bad weather team than the Cowboys because they don't really depend upon getting the ball deep very often. So they're more dangerous in the Meadowlands than would be the Cowboys.

The problem for the Eagles is that the Cowboys have a much more athletic set of linebackers so are less vulnerable to the little dumps that Westbrook kills us with.

The problem for the Cowboys is how to handle Jim Johnson's blitzes. If they successfully pressure Romo he'll turn the ball over.

I would favor the Eagles in this game but I wouldn't bet it if that's why you're asking. I don't have confidence in my pick since the weather is going to be very nice tomorrow in Philadelphia. In bad weather I would have confidently picked the Eagles.

December 27, 2008 11:09 AM
 

jcrown92 said:

FF55,

I wouldn't worry about having to play the Eagles in the playoffs. There is about a Zero percent chance both the Bucs and Bears will lose this weekend. I think the Bears could lose but not both. Hopefully TB or the Bears get that 6th seed if the Eagles can beat Dallas. Also, another thing that people here might be overlooking. In my opinion it would behoove the Giants, if the Panthers got the 2 seed instead of the 5 seed because the 5 seed plays the Cardinals whom I think will lose to either the Panthers/Falcons. The Giants will have a good chance to play the 5 seed in the second round. Unless of course Dallas gets the 6th seed and manages to beat the Vikes/Bears which is possible. But I wouldn't want anything to do with the Panthers in the 2nd round. I would prefer ATL/TB/Arizona.

December 27, 2008 11:19 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

jcrown, yeah, I agree in regard to the likelihood of the Eagles getting there. I will certainly be rooting for them to beat the hated Boys and expect that then neither would make the playoffs.

I also agree with you about the Panthers, although I tend to assume that you just have to beat whomever shows up and it's okay to have to beat them earlier than later as you earn your way to the Big Dance.

Actually, the two teams that I think are those to "watch" in the NFC playoffs (other than the Giants, who should be favored in any game) are Atlanta and Carolina. The former because of a very stout defense plus a good running game and confident quarterback (who seems not to understand that a rookie doesn't win in the playoffs), the latter because of the running game we saw last week and would see again in the winds of the Meadowlands.

Frankly, my hope is that we get cold, but not excessively windy, conditions for all of our games at Giants Stadium. We have the best quarterback, and I hope we can take advantage of that. We lose some of that "plus" in those bad winds.

December 27, 2008 11:29 AM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Eli taking his boys to Hawai-

www.northjersey.com/.../36773644.html

December 27, 2008 11:31 AM
 

DEMO3356 said:

That Brady / Cassel talk was a day long argument on ESPN Radio last week.I think it was The Herd Making the Argument for it. As ridiculous as it sounds at first glance he made some good points. If the Pats could get say 2 #1's from a team like the Lions for Brady, They would get younger and more athletic at QB AND add three first rounders to that aging Defense. Conversly if they let Cassel walk and it taked Brady 6-8 games to get back to 70% after that horrific knee injury, and they keep getting older and slower on Defense.  Not saying I'd do it but if anyone Ballsy enough to do it it is Bellichek

December 27, 2008 11:37 AM
 

jcrown92 said:

I think we can beat any team in the NFC, but I would prefer the Giants to play the Panthers in the NFC Championship (hopefully not at all) because I am leery of the bye week. You never know what you will get in the bye week of the playoffs. Will they be a little rusty? That's why I would prefer not to play them until the Championship game. The reason I chose ATL as one of the teams I wouldn't mind seeing in the 2nd round is because I think Ryan would struggle mightly in the Meadowlands. The Giants would stack the box and make him have to win the game. I don't think in those conditions he is capable of winning a playoff game yet. A lot of there wins are in domes remember. The dream matchup of course would be to get Arizona, but I don't think they stand much of a chance the way they are playing right now, but you never know they did beat the Cowboys there.

December 27, 2008 11:38 AM
 

KD said:

In related news, Eli will pay Plax's bus fare to Jackson Heights to catch the ferry to Rikers...

December 27, 2008 11:39 AM
 

KD said:

Or if he's feeling cheap, he could just give Plax $2 for the N train to Ditmars Blvd and let him walk the rest of the way...

December 27, 2008 11:41 AM
 

Krow said:

I want Carolina to do well... to dilute that #1 pick they're sending to Philly.  Just like I'm happy New Orleans didn't make the playoffs.

December 27, 2008 11:47 AM
 

angel lugo said:

KD said:

In related news, Eli will pay Plax's bus fare to Jackson Heights to catch the ferry to Rikers...

You better hope... you never go to  Rikers!!!!

C67 Son...

December 27, 2008 11:47 AM
 

KD said:

Angel, my buddy Brad is a CO at Rikers. In the unlikely event I end up there, I would be fine.

December 27, 2008 11:49 AM
 

KD said:

But I think Angel is my favorite poster on this site. I just love his perception of reality. Not a joke.

December 27, 2008 11:52 AM
 

KD said:

And everyone, ESPN has the dog challenge on at noon. If you like dogs and have never seen it. trust me it is awesome. The best competition is when the dogs long jump off a pier into water trying to catch a fake duck.

December 27, 2008 11:56 AM
 

Krow said:

We need an NFL pentathlon during the off-season.  Players can compete in events such as chugging a fifth of Patron... quick draw with unlicensed guns... rude behavior in public... and the ever popular 'slap dat ho'.

December 27, 2008 12:35 PM
 

KD said:

Krow, you need one more event for a pentathalon...

December 27, 2008 12:40 PM
 

KD said:

Here's the Slap Dat Ho game:

www.gametied.com/playgame.php

December 27, 2008 12:43 PM
 

HungrElikeawulf said:

What about the 100 yard dash carrying a stereo, or the best time for jacking up cars and stealing the wheels?  (These are references to the hood Olympics in the movie "I'm gonna git you sucka")

December 27, 2008 12:46 PM
 

KD said:

I think the 5th contest should be something like who can take the most steroids without growing boobs, but that might take too long.

December 27, 2008 12:48 PM
 

hkiswani said:

ff55y -

Roethlisberger over Brees? Nope. Brees is one of the most accurate throwers of the football ever. If he was on a better football team he'd get the credit he deserves.

Cutler will be there one day - I'd say in 2-3 years he's one of the best 3 QBs in the league. He's incredible - but still doesn't have a full grasp of the game and he's still a little frantic at times and makes costly mistakes often. Right now - I'd take Peyton and Eli, Brady, and Brees ahead of him.

With Eli, Brees, and Brady I think it's debatable as to the order. Brady is a BIT overrated, although he is a great quarterback IMO.

December 27, 2008 12:58 PM
 

KD said:

George Forman made like a billion dollars selling those grills (I have two), and now he is a Minekie spokesman??? All b/c he lost to Ali and beat Moorer? In-f--king-credible...

December 27, 2008 1:02 PM
 

KD said:

Who's older: FF72, George Forman or JoePa???

December 27, 2008 1:04 PM
 

hkiswani said:

As for Giselle,

I don't even think she's the baddest chic that's done Victoria Secret ads.

That would be the ridiculously bangin Adrianna Lima:

str8hoops.files.wordpress.com/.../adriana-lima.jpg

God bless THAT chic

December 27, 2008 1:04 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

Demo - Like I mentioned before, nobody would give up 2 1st rounders for Cassel. Especially not the Lions who will have the luxury of picking Stafford, who has a MUCH higher ceiling than Cassel does. After that, the next desperate team that needs a franchise signal caller would take Bradford and then nobody after that would be so depleted at the QB position that they'd throw away two 1st rounders for an average QB.

As for who I'd prefer to see in the playoffs, I think it'd have to be Atlanta if at all possible. Matt Ryan has played great but I don't think he's good enough to beat us in the Meadowlands just yet. Especially not with Webster shutting down his main weapon in Roddy White. Short of repeating as Super Bowl champs, there's nothing I'd like more than to knock Dallas out of the playoffs again. On the flip side, there's nothing I'd hate more than them knocking us out. So really, I'd like them to choke against the Eagles and not make it. Hopefully in the same fashion as that epic Vikings-Cardinals game a couple of years back.

December 27, 2008 1:07 PM
 

hkiswani said:

ff55y -

Yeah I think Palmer's one of the top 4 or 5 guys just based on physical skill set, but I think that situation he's in has hit his confidence a bit over the past couple of years. And that knee.

As much as I hate Romo, he's easily in the top 8 - even with the bonehead turnovers from time to time. He's a true playmaker at the QB position.

December 27, 2008 1:11 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

ff55- What you mentioned about atlanta and Carolina I agree with except for the fact that Atlanta wont have even played an out door game in 2 months from when we would face them, and Carolina stinks on the road as well. So I think it really favors us having home field and all...

December 27, 2008 1:14 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Haz- Thats not even that good of a pic of Lima...

www.zanimacije.com/.../Adriana%20Lima%20-%20Wallpaper%20(3).jpg

That does a justice imo...

December 27, 2008 1:17 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Also, I never thought I would live to see the day that Eli was mentioned in the same breath as Brady. But its true they are very close in skill

December 27, 2008 1:18 PM
 

KD said:

Giants SB win in Star Wars terms:

Feb. 3: The New York Giants rally to win Super Bowl XLII on a last-minute drive when quarterback Eli Manning listens to Obi-Wan, turns off his targeting device and successfully fires a pair of proton torpedoes into New England's thermal exhaust port while Patriots coach Bill Belichick careens off into space. In a related story, Mercury Morris and the 1972 Dolphins are ejected from the South Miami Hospital after spraying champagne around the intensive care unit.

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

December 27, 2008 1:19 PM
 

KD said:

Kyle, your link didn't work. I was fired up to see it too.

December 27, 2008 1:20 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Kyle -

The link doesn't work man

KD-

Lmao, me too

December 27, 2008 1:22 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

I hope this one works...

www.lazygirls.info/.../adriana_lima_lima19_O4oUuGA.sized.jpg

Not that she doesnt look that good in Haz's pic, I just think she has definatly taken better shots...

December 27, 2008 1:28 PM
 

Krow said:

Rating QBs is an almost impossible task.  The numbers are drastically influenced by the team philosophy... complimentary players... and even the teams success.  

Guys like Brees and Philips are in constant shootouts because their respective defenses give up points.  Cassel and Romo have excellent targets.  Warner plays against cupcakes in warm weather.  There's no universal measure.

December 27, 2008 1:35 PM
 

KD said:

December 27, 2008 1:46 PM
 

hkiswani said:

KD -

Cut it out dude, I'm in the middle of my kitchen with my little sister next to me and now I can't even look

Lol

But yeah, def Adrianna over Giselle

December 27, 2008 1:49 PM
 

KD said:

Dude, West Virginia has a player named John Holmes...Insert your third and a yard jokes Here:

Seriously, this kid is like what, 20? And his parents named him John Holmes???

1 John Holmes LB  6-3  226  Sr.  ROCKLEDGE, FL  

sports.espn.go.com/.../roster

December 27, 2008 1:52 PM
 

KD said:

Haz, the female form is a thing of beauty...You should go to Europe, female nudity is everywhere.

December 27, 2008 1:54 PM
 

KD said:

You wouldn't want your little sister to see these works of art:

en.wikipedia.org/.../File:Michelangelos_David.jpg

en.wikipedia.org/.../File:2005_manneke_pis05.jpg

December 27, 2008 1:58 PM
 

hkiswani said:

KD -

A thing of beauty I'd prefer my seven year old sister not to see and ask me why the hell I was looking at that for the rest of the day lol

December 27, 2008 2:01 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

Haz- Did you not see the word nude in the link? lol

If your sister is there why would you click that?

December 27, 2008 2:11 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Kyle -

Lol, I didn't click man - I was just saying I can't see b/c my sister is right here

December 27, 2008 2:13 PM
 

KD said:

Haz, just explain to her that all little girls should look like that when they grow up.

December 27, 2008 2:14 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

You don't get the "real deal" from photos. I've met a lot of beautiful women in my time (I was actually friendly with Catherine Deneuve when we were both a lot younger and my wife has a lot of relatively "famous" beauties as friend/acquaintances) and while you have to stand and admire them all for their beauty, only a very few have the special charisma that hits you like a gale-force wind.

On a pure beauty standard Giselle Bundchen would not beat out a number of women of my acquaintance, although she is extraordinarily beautiful and incredibly sexy. But she exudes charisma that makes you feel as if Brady is an afterthought (as is everyone else in the room). I cannot imagine any other model in the world creates the same sense of the oxygen being taken out of the room when she enters.

Tom Brady is one lucky SOB.

December 27, 2008 2:15 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

ok haha i see. Some of the guys will come on later having certainly missed out on some interesting conversation....

December 27, 2008 2:16 PM
 

Kyle Langan said:

ff55- Thats prob. Why he proposed to her

December 27, 2008 2:17 PM
 

KD said:

You wouldn't show your little sis David? Or Manequin Pis? They are historic works of art dude. Don't be so uptight. Manaquin Pis was the first public water fountain in Europe, and the water comes out of a baby's d--k...

December 27, 2008 2:17 PM
 

Fitz said:

KD,yout falling into the creepy zone LOL..

December 27, 2008 2:20 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Kyle -

Lol, agreed

ff55y -

Charisma that hits you like a gale-force wind? Lmao, so you're pretty fond of Giselle huh?

December 27, 2008 2:20 PM
 

KD said:

December 27, 2008 2:20 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

And changing the subject to the not as important topic of football, Haz, I gotta strongly disagree regarding Brees and both Cutler and Roethlisberger.

Bress is an extremly good quarterback, and a good team guy, but there have been a LOT of excellent quarterbacks through the years that just don't have that "it" factor.

Big Ben has "it". Eli has "it". Peyton and Tom have "it". Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Baugh, Graham, etc. had "it". Even Marino, who could never take his inferior teams to the Big Dance, had "it".

I may be ranking Cutler a bit high because I can already see where he's headed (I think he has the best tools since John Elway, whom I think is the best who ever lived), but I'm sorry, I'd take Big Ben over Brees every day of the week. He isn't as good technically, but he's a winner. Put Roethlisberger on the Saints and they would be in the playoffs. I'd bank on that.

December 27, 2008 2:22 PM
 

KD said:

creepy zone  my @$$. Go to the Met, ot the Guggenheim. There's nakedness everywhere. Of course in the USA violence is cool, but nudity...Nooooo we can't have any of that.

December 27, 2008 2:23 PM
 

KD said:

Marino took his team to the Big Dance! 1984. 1st SB I remember. And he was always in the playoffs. I wouldn't trash Marino. He was a total stud. best ever if you ask me.

December 27, 2008 2:25 PM
 

Fitz said:

And by the way Joanna Krupa might beat all those chicks right now..

www.famous-people-nude.com/.../joanna-krupa_09.jpg

December 27, 2008 2:32 PM
 

hkiswani said:

ff55y -

Agreed about the "it" factor. Cutler has some of the most impressive physical skills I've ever seen in a quarterback.

But Roethlisberger on the Saints doesn't make them a contender - I disagree. The atrocious play of that defense has nothing to do with who lines up behind center.

I'd just like to see what Brees can do on the Patriots and how far he'd take them. He's a sharp, sharp quarterback.

December 27, 2008 2:32 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

KD, I didn't mean to denigrate Marino. I think he's one of the best to ever play. I was just responding to Haz' "excuse" for Brees that since he hasn't played on a great team he hasn't been able to really show his stuff to best advantage. Marino played on some pretty poor teams but always made them competitive simply because he was so damn good.

I like Brees. I think he's a very fine quarterback. But if I were going to revise my list I would think more about dropping him down further than moving him up. And while I think Big Ben was overrated his first few seasons because of the quality of the team surrounding him his rookie season, I think he is now somewhat underrated because people think the Steelers are better than they are. He is winning games for them they have no right to win.

Good find on Deneuve. You young guys never saw her when she was heart-breakingly beautiful. She was remote though. There was always something she was withholding. Those were in the days when people like her reserved a zone of privacy rather than court publicity. Bundchen is more open and friendly. They do both share the ability to make your heart jump around a lot when in their presence.

December 27, 2008 2:37 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Fitz -

Nahhh. She's cute - but the kind of girl you can find around the way.

You don't find Adrianna Lima around the way lol.

December 27, 2008 2:37 PM
 

Fitz said:

KD lol just bustin chops.I know US is pretty uptight.Compared to places like France and Greece where people dont even own bathing suits or underwear lol.

December 27, 2008 2:40 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Haz, good point about the Ain'ts defense, but I still say Big Ben finds a way to get them the 2-3 wins they needed to make the playoffs. They lost a few tight games that I think he'd have won for them.

And we need to stop talking about these damn women. I come here for football, not to remind myself of girls I loved and didn't get or those I should not be having impure thoughts about that would do me no good under any circumstances ;-)

December 27, 2008 2:45 PM
 

Fitz said:

Haz,

True Lima has got that exotic factor going lol..

December 27, 2008 2:46 PM
 

KD said:

I like Fitz's pic...I can't find her around my way. She might be better than Giselle. I prefer them tall though and Giselle is like 6 feet.

December 27, 2008 2:48 PM
 

Fitz said:

And im down on Brees,he just doesn't win enough..

You could argue that Brees has more weapons then Peyton does,but the difference is Peyton finds a way to win..Brees does not..Until he starts winning he is barely breaking the top 5 IMO.

December 27, 2008 2:49 PM
 

KD said:

Brees has Shockey!!!

December 27, 2008 2:51 PM
 

KD said:

December 27, 2008 2:55 PM
 

Fitz said:

Although Reggie Bush is turning into a Gigantic Bust.......

December 27, 2008 2:55 PM
 

KD said:

Reggie Bush is turning into a Gigantic Bust while Mario Williams is turning into the next White/Strahan. And the Texans fired Casserly. Casserly went to my high school.

December 27, 2008 3:01 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

I'm supposed to take my son and wife to see Gran Torino this afternoon. Anyone seen it?

December 27, 2008 3:06 PM
 

KD said:

I am totally digging this Nicks kid on UNC. making one handed catches, catches against his helmet, breaking tackles. He should be on our radar...Radar is a pallindrome.

December 27, 2008 3:06 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

It's that or Benjamin Button.

December 27, 2008 3:07 PM
 

KD said:

Gran Torino is great. Not good for kids though. But I guess your son is older than me...but it is a good movie.

December 27, 2008 3:07 PM
 

KD said:

FF72. You are choosing between Clint Eastwood and Brad Pitt...And you have to ask?

December 27, 2008 3:09 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Yeah, well I went for Clint immediately, but my wife was pushing for Brad. Thankfully, my jock son got the tie-breaking vote and just went for the right guy.

December 27, 2008 3:11 PM
 

Krow said:

Bush is only a 'bust' when compared to his draft position.  If he was even a late #1 then he'd be considered a decent selection.

December 27, 2008 3:13 PM
 

JD_in_Dallas said:

Um, if anybody sees Adrianna Lima around my way, I'm gona need some of those gale force winds to keep me back!  LOL

I know Brady isn't gay [not that there's anything wrong with that] I'm just pissed that I won't be able to have the same impure thoughts as I did before knowing she'll be a married woman.  No problem, that pick of Adrianna might help :-).

To football...  So I think Brees is a very good QB and I was smart enough to pick up Rivers in fantasy in the 8th round who led me to win my FF Championship.  I think I'd take either of them over Big Ben.  I think he is the same as he was when he came into the league and hasn't really progressed like Eli or Rivers to this point.  He was fortunate enough to go to a team that was a "manage the game QB" away from a Lombardi, but nothing since to me.

LMFAO!!!  Brees has Shockey!!! (at least SOME of the year)  

KD, you're the odds man, so whats the line on Shockey will get hurt BEFORE he has a chance to play against us?  I'm sure he'll want to show off his ball dropping skills at some point.

December 27, 2008 3:14 PM
 

JD_in_Dallas said:

Pierre Thomas has really stolen some of Bush's thunder for sure.  Wait until Reggie gets bumped down, he might have to turn to Shockey for advice on how to "blow up" team relations.

December 27, 2008 3:15 PM
 

hkiswani said:

***UPDATE UP TOP***

December 27, 2008 3:27 PM
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