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Jim- its either you sign jacobs or ward, and ward has shown he cant run without jacobs. and keep in mind this was the first year ward was healthy.

Ward cant run without jacobs

where do we go if spags does leave which seems likely who would take over?

Guess the Giants won't be looking to Mike Nolan should Spags fly the coop:

www.sltrib.com/.../ci_11447664

Bryan, I can honestly say if they completed a 4yards pass on 1st and 5, I will say, wow stupid call, but i guess it worked.

Anyways, as Jim pointed out earlier, what do you think happened to Bradshaw?

Is his lack of carries in the running game due to his own ineptitude, or is it because Ward has played so well, that he earned Bradshaw's carries as well?

On one hand, locking up eli before the chance of an uncapped season is smart.

On the other hand, Eli shouldn't be the highest paid player in the NFL.

He isn't THAT good. I don't think he got a single MVP vote. Yea, he was SB MVP, but Hines Ward isn't the highest paid WR.

Give him a nice contract, but don't further escalate salaries while there is still a salary cap.

axr:  the reason for my question was not to suggest Jacobs v. Ward; it was more to suggest Jacobs at all.  As most on this site know, I was against riding jacobs all year because I viewed him as a one-dimensional back.  I have always thought Bradshaw had much more upside.  But Jacobs actually grew on me as the season wore on and I admit he ran much better than i thought he ever would.

But, he missed 4 games in each of the last two seasons and was hampered towards the end of each when he did play.  contrast that with Tiki who gave us 10 years without injury.  

My fear is that we put big dollars into Jacobs and he gives us another partial season or worse.  Bruising backs don't usually last too long and BJ has given us no reason to expect differently.

My solution would be let BJ and Ward go, start with Bradshaw and Ware and draft a new back this year.  They also have that Kay-Jay kid they were so high on in pre-season before he got hurt.

Contracts are decieving because they are over time. Romo makes as much per year as eli

KD, it's probably just the nature of the game. Ben was the highest paid player when he was extended. Did he deserve it?

Matt Ryan was given 70+ mil contract prior to throwing an NFL pass.

Eli is the central piece of the team. Theyre locking him for good.

Jim-

I dunno if starting the year with Bradshaw and Ware would be a good idea. Jacobs wears down the D, if he plays in 12 games during the regular season, but plays in the playoffs ill take it.

Jim, are you sure? I understand your concerns with Jacobs, but I think he has shown he makes our run game tick. Supposedly, many defenders have admitted that the pounding that Jacobs force upon them drastically affects their effectiveness in containing the other two backs.

Whats important to look at is the guaranteed part. Much of that money is going to be i bonuses, money hell prob never see. I think its a tad too much though, but who really cares. Locking up our franchise QB is the right thing to do.

Bryan,

to reply to your offensive coordinator question (timings a bit off but how and ever)

There are a many guys I'd take over KG any day of the week but here are just a few - Cam Cameron, Mike Heimerdinger, Mike Mularkey, Jim Harbaugh, Al Saunders.

Okay, are we past people continuing to try to prove to some guy that Gilbride is not a good coordinator and that the Giants' game plan on Sunday clearly was a BIG part of the problem? Who cares what he thinks? I don't care what Bryan thinks, what any number of commentators (even the apparent majority that agree that Gilbride was part of the problem) think, what Gilbride thinks, or even what I think. I care about what Reese and Coughlin think. That's all that matters now. I'll leave it at this. If they don't do something about what is obvious to anyone who wants to look, then they become part of the problem too.

Jim, yes, sign Jacobs but keep the guaranteed money within reasonable limits and give him plenty of incentive payments based on ability to suit up. He is a unique back, as I described earlier this season, a "game-changer" because of his combination of size and speed. As you may recall, I was also a bit of a skeptic in regard to whether he should be signed to a long-term contract at big money. I am now convinced he's needed and will produce. And I like the fire he brings to the team. We'll need that next season.

And as for Eli, he's just fortunate that the "ticket price" for top quarterback talent keeps rising but there's absolutely no question that he has to be signed. You don't allow one of the five best quarterbacks in the NFL slip through your fingers. Period.

Yeah, I've heard all that, and maybe I'm just being nostalgic for Tiki in light of this huge disappointment.  But the 3 undeniable facts about jacobs are:  1.  he has yet to show he can give you a full healthy year; 2.  he is not a receiving threat; and 3. he is not a breakawy threat.  

It is true if we give up on him we change the face of our running game -- no more big hammer.  But I'm not convinced that model is the best one.  Remember, when we went on the post-season run in '07, he was nicked up and the difference maker was Braddie.  And, of course, the Eagles just taught us if you are riding a big horse as your main offensive threat, teams can load up and stop that horse.  

Obviously, if Plax - or a Plax equivalent - is in the line-up such that BJ is one of 2 serious weapons, his utility goes up, but given that we don't have a Plax - erzats or otherwise - do we really want to tie a ton of dough up in the big man?

Sign Jacobs, let Ward go, and give his carries to Bradshaw. That scenario brought us a SB championship. Sitting Bradshaw and using Ward got us another early round exit. I know there were a lot of other things that got us there but Bradshaw was a big part of that run. Remember that Tampa game Jacobs did nothing Bradshaw jumped started the offense. The First Eagles game Bradshaw busted some huge runs.

lol I searched the word Kildrive on google and Screaming Sports came up.

Starting next season wihtout BJ and Plax - DISASTER.  

You all think you hate this offense now.  Just wait.  Take away a big target WR and a bruising beast of a back and you'll get Gibride fired, because this O won't be in the 5, 10, or even 15.

I have a good profile pic, but it keeps coming up error.

Did any of you catch the brief interview of earth/wind/fire by strahan? Stra asked Bradshaw if he wants to see his teammates leave. He smiled and said YES. haha. I thought that was funny. I know it's his competitive nature, but considering how close they are, still must feel weird to have your close friend publically admit he doesn't want you back on the team.

giantsfan,  I caught that too; and I immediately blamed Kildrive for coming between friends because he could never figure out a way to get his most explosive weapon on the field.

FF55 - I think Eli's more top 10 than top 5, but its irrelevant.  

You don't let a QB who has proven he can get the job done leave.  Its too important a position and too unstable on a good team.  There was no question after the SB that he was getting extended.

I'm not sure I make him the highest paid player, but again, its all guaranteed money and not top dollar figure that's important.

7 years, 120 mill.  He's making $10M/yr now, so thats doubling his money to almost $20M/yr..  Between him and BJ, the Giants are spending A LOT of the money they had for FA.

FF55 - you said once that you thought Eli was smart enough to leave money on the table to better the team.  Do you think if he gets the above numbers taht he could get more?

110-120 with 40 guaranteed is more like Peyton type money than Eli type mney. Something like 90 with 25 guaranteed seems more reasonable.

I'd like to know the REAL reason Bradshaw got so little playing time this season. It bothered me the entire year. He is, and seemingly remains, a home run threat every time he touches the ball, yet has the explosiveness and power to run inside too. He isn't Tiki Barber, but he's as close as we're going to get for a long time.

There had to be something going on that we don't know about because, while Ward was a terrific back this year who performed brilliantly, I cannot believe that no one realized that Bradshaw could be used in ways that would have given us a much greater chance to beat a team that, like the Eagles, stacked the box.

All I could see was that Bradshaw did not look as trim as he had the year before and seemed just a quarter-step slower to the hole. Of course that could have been a result of the alcohol he consumed while clubbing with his great friends Pierce and Plax. Nice influences there.

they understand, its a business.  Bradshaw wants the carries so he can do well and get that money

If the loss of Jacobs would ultimately result in Killdrive's being fired (as Bryan suggests), then let me be the first to purchase a ticket on the "Dump Brandon" bandwagon.

Big guy, I love ya like the breeze and would hate to see ya go, but we all have to think of the greater good here.

Bryan, to tell the truth I think Eli could get whatever number he and Archie pick out of the air. The Giants cannot let him go, and he knows that. So yes, I DO think he's leaving money on the table.

In a few years Jay Cutler will demand, and get, more. Soon thereafter Matt Ryan will too. That's the way it's headed for elite quarterbacks in a quarterbacks' league.

norm - the difference is ...

wihtout BJ & Plax but WITH Gilbride you probably have an 8-8 team.  Maybe 9-7.  Probably no chance in the playoffs.

WITH Gilbride and BJ, even absent Plax, you have a 10 - 6 team or 11-5 and can win the SB.

Yeah, this means nothing at all. Next year, or two, when Rivers want his extension, he will be the next highest paid NFL player.

In an earlier thread I questioned whether or not the Giants have any leverage in their negotiations with Eli.

If it's indeed true (as someone pointed out) that Eli really doesn't want to play anyhwere but in NYC, aren't the Giants really bidding against themselves here? If Eli were to suggest $120 MM and 40 guaranteed and the Giants were to counter with 100 and 25, would Eli really pick up his marbles and play elsewhere?

I have no idea, myself. But I'd think that if Eli is loath to leave NY, then it should give the Giants at least some degree of leverage there.

OK… I’d like to make a case for firing Tom Coughlin.  Well, not really ‘firing’… but moving upstairs to a different position.  Hear me out...

* Being a head coach in the NFL is a grinding, tough, draining job… a young mans job.  And Tom is THE oldest HC in the league.  He’s 61.  And while I’d never say that he’s ready for the boneyard… he can’t possibly have the energy of younger men.

* He’s paid his dues, and the organization owes him the proverbial ‘golden parachute’.  Director of Operations… Grand Poobah of This or That… whatever.  Pay him, use his experience and wisdom… but let someone else do the heavy lifting.

* In any super competitive environment you are either getting better or getting worse.  There’s no way to just lock in.  Let’s be honest, as evidenced by recent events… we’re getting worse.  

* We have a guy already on the staff who is THE current hottest HC candidate.  And he plays Giant football and knows the NFC East.  There’s no telling who will be around when good old Tom finally decides to pack it in.  Right here and now we can do a solid, easy transition.  In a year or two we may not be able to say that.

* Hiring Spags also fires Gilbride.  Two birds with one stone.  New coach gets to name his coordinators and assistants.  Coughlin will never fire his buddy Kevin, but a new broom sweeps out all the dust.

* We lock in coaching stability for 5-10 years.  Oh sure, Spags could tank and get fired.  But if he succeeds then we’re set for the long haul.

* Coughlin doesn’t go away.  He’s still with the team.  Spags could draw on his expertise… his experience.  And naturally he finishes out his lucrative contract… and then becomes part of the Giant family.  Not exactly Devil's Island.

Yeah, this is a bold move.  New blood… a young, fresh approach.  But I feel one we need to make.  It’s definitely risky.  Think of the alternative… Spags leaves so we hire another old buddy of Tom's, Gilbride hangs on, and everyone gets a year older.  C’mon… for once let’s cut through the sentimentality and make the smart moves.  Fire Coughlin.

Krow,

Interesting post; definitely some food for thought there.

What a draft class for QBs huh?

When it's all said and done,

Big Ben can possibly end up with 3 rings. (Pitts Defense is here to stay).

Eli with at least 2. (NYG will compete for the title again, and often).

Rivers with 1. (Theyre so close each year, theyre bound to get one).

Krow, can you imagine the New York Giants firing their head coach one season removed from the most incredible Superbowl Championship run followed by a 12-4 season without their HOF DE, probowl DE in preseason, and #1 WR? Maybe the cowboys, or chargers, but not the Giants

Krow,  Nice thought but I think TC would have to agree and I think he likes coaching.  2 years ago was the time to fire him; not now (even if we call it a "promotion upstairs")  Unfortuneately we are going to watch spags go the way of John Fox.  At least TC won us a Supe; Fassel only got us there.

Krow, not going to happen.  The players have bought in Coughlin's mentality and the things that he preaches.  Coughlin is one of the few coaches in the game that can actually "teach" these guys as a collective unit.  He has that locker room operating as one.  That is a tough thing to get done in professional sports.  I have to assume that the players would be pretty pissed off if they  "cut through the sentimentality and make the smart moves.  Fire Coughlin." as you put it.

Krows talking about "moving" TC more than firing him.  

Guys would we really want Spags as our head coach? Then who runs the Defense? Best case scenario is somehow Spags doesn't get another job and remains as DC. He is damn good at DC if it aint broke then don't fix it in my eyes. The only thing that is broke is Gilbride, but I don't they will fix it.

FF,  I agree with you on Braddie.  You have to believe there is something there that soured TC and KG.  It is a little hard to figure given that they continued to use him to return kicks, but obviously they found something lacking in his abilities

Krow, that's a very interesting approach but absolutely contrary to the "Giants' way". Coughlin is one of the Mara's guys. Irish Catholic, Parcells' tree, good family man, winner of a Super Bowl, etc., etc. They're more likely to give him a contract to allow him to coach to 70 than allow him to be pushed upstairs at this point.

Frankly, I would have suggested the same but when I thought about it I decided that this was not even a remote possibility. I had fantasies of bringing Parcells in to tell Coughlin how rewarding being the Director of Football Operations could be but then I realized that the Giants can't offer that because no one in his right mind is going to do anything that would induce Jerry Reese to think about leaving. And Coughlin couln't be induced to move up to anything but that.

And remember, four straight playoff appearances including a Lombardi Trophy. It just ain't happening. But that is good, creative thinking.

Now here's my plan. We go down to one of the joints in Edgewater where some of the goombas like to hang out. We pass around a picture of KG and tell them that we're ready to pay $1,000,000 if this guy happens to disappear. We take up a collection from Giants fans and get oversubscibed by $2MM (perhaps more, much more). Either we pocket it or contribute that extra money to a series of commercials we run starring [fill in the blank] our favorite free agent so Reese can take his pay down that same $2MM for 2009 and fit him under the cap. Brilliant, no?

Honestly and realistically, there is no known person out there that is better than gilbride. Some people named other OC's, which I do agree with. BUT they are already an OC, they can't come here at least you give them the Assistant Head Coach title, if they are not already an aHC.

But I would not mind TC and Reese venture out a little and gamble for an unknown. Maybe pluck someone off of the Saints team? Learning from Sean Payton isnt such a bad idea. He's a very creative OC, not a good HC, but a very creative OC.

They can't come here UNLESS you give them an Assistant Head Coach title, I meant. Not at least.

Well again... let's look at the facts.  We had absolutely no success till Reese forced Tom to take Spags as his DC.  Clearly Reese knows TC has limitations.  And while he inherited Coughlin (and Gilbride) he brought in Spags.  Thats' HIS guy... who is now leaving.

I have a lot of respect for TC... but he's more a manager-type.  Superbowls are won by motivators and innovators.  The roll TC plays could certainly be done at the next level up... and it could be argued that it should be there anyway.

Certain franchises ... certain people... seem to breed coaches.  Much as I wish it wasn't so, Philadelphia is one of those situations.  Look how sorely they outcoached us.  It was no contest.  And again, that 2007-8 Superbowl would not have happened without Spags.  Remember where he came from.  It was the NY Giants.

Right now I think we're at a turning point.  It's up... or it's down.  But it's not going to stay the same.

Jim, you know what, if Spags is John Fox then I'm happy to see him go. Fox is a good, but far from great coach.

He's the "defensive genius" who managed to come up with a defensive game plan that had Larry Fitzgerald running almost completely free all game against the Panthers last week when he was really the only guy they had to worry about.

And frankly, that's the problem with making coaching choices. The fact is very few of them are great men who can be a Lombardi or a Walsh (or a Parcells or a Johnson). I don't think Fox is as good a coach as Coughlin, or a good many others. But he sure looked like he would be a great one when he was with the Giants.

I would NOT bet that Spags proves to be a great head coach, for us or anyone else. It's possible, but it's a crap shoot. Of all the candidates out there I would not have him at the top of my personal list.

ff55,

I very much like your suggestion. In the end, it's probably a lot more feasible than my earlier idea of sending Killdrive out clubbing with Pierce, a few bottles of hooch, and a glock.

Krow, that scenario is about as likely as any of us stealing Giselle away from Tom Brady...

FF55... I know... I mulled over all those same points.  And that's why TC will not be fired... but it's also why TC should be fired.  He's 'one of them'... and I believe way past his prime.  He had a miracle fall into his pocket... so did we all.  And now we're about to pi$$ it away... because they can't bring themselves to make the tough call.

Again... IMHO.... but I have seen this sort of thing before.  Hanging on instead of moving forward.  It's death in the business world... and a mortal sin in the technology game.  

KD,

If Brady is unable to ever get back onto a football field, Giselle might just be there for the taking.

By someone other than a G101 regular, of course.

FF55, who would you take over Spags?

Krow, while your logic works, FF's reality check trumps you.  TC is here to stay until the team is sub-.500.  Spags is gone this season.  The only question is who do they make the DC, a staff lifer or new blood that will want his own head coaching gig in a year or 2.

KD... in my heart... I know I'd have a shot at Giselle... admit it, you would too LOL.

Of course anyone with 50 bucks could get one of AP's hookers...

Jim.... Reese is a different kind of cat.  He's young... still got his cujones.  I think this year we're going to find out what he's made of.  We could see all sorts of bold moves... or he could hire Andy Robustelli and Alex Webster... and then I'll shoot myself.

FF,  If you measure a head coach by his team's performance, Fox has done pretty well.  1 supe performance, 1 other NFC Championship appearance and several playoff appearances.  He's never had a QB and he's always had to overcome tons of injuries.

I actually think Fox is one of the better HC's in the league despite last week.

After all, we did not look too good against Philly, and 3 years ago Fox kicked our butts in the playoffs.

Or maybe Handley is still available.

Maybe they should bring in Buddy Ryan as DC so he can b!tch slap Gilbride.

Harking back to that game the Cards played against the Panthers, let me say something about Offensive Coordinators. I don't even know the name of the guy who holds that position for Arizona, but he showed more creativity in 60 minutes than Gilbride has his entire career.

I commented at the time that the patterns they ran to get Fitzgerald free were brilliant. They had a number of different crossing patterns set up that confused the safeties and left Fitz out in space with a cornerback desperately trailing after him. You know, the kinds of things that might have been done for Hixon and Smith on Sunday....but wait, we don't do that sort of thing.

They also changed their entire offensive approach to fit the defense they were seeing, knowing that the Panthers were going to be set to stop the run early and then put intense pressure on Warner. They mixed it up pretty well, running when passes were expected, and staying with it until the Panthers had to at least respect the run. Then they took advantage of coverages that allowed them to free up Fitz and Breaston quite easily. So they game planned around the defense they expected to see as we should have....but, no, I forgot, Gilbride doesn't need to do that because his offensive genius is such that defenses must adjust to us, not the other way around.

So with one week to prepare for that game the Arizona coaches installed a new approach that managed to work around the absence of Antuan Boldin (their leading receiver this season, I believe), confuse a supposed "defensive genius" in John Fox, and use new pass patterns that freed up Fitz all day. We had two weeks to get ready for an opponent we know well, that we had played six weeks earlier in January-like conditions, and failed against. And we came up with a lousy game plan. Leads to a pretty logical conclusion.

Bryan's steadfast defense of Killdrive adds credence to those awful rumors of him being an Eagles fan.

jim, I don't remmeber them making another trip to the NFC championship game.

If my memory serves me correctly, I think he inherited a team that went prior like 1-15.

He took over and went then 8-8

and then next, went to the superbowl

then 8-8 again

and then this year.

Good interview with COACH TC on Mike Today..He has a way of Making you feel Better about the whole thing,I will give him that..As he talks with ENergy and Excitment..

ANd a nice Little Note he brought up,When the Pats Won their First the Next year they went 9-7 ,then came back to win back to back I believe.

Which goes with my prediction that the Giants will win the Next two Superbowls with the second one opening up their new 1.7 billion dollar stadium..

Ahh Maybe I shouldnt have predicted that LOL..But I feel it..

Heres the Interview:

www.wfan.com/.../play_window.php

Krow, the only shot you, or I, would have with Giselle is from Burress' Glock.

ff55,

The Card OC's name is Todd Haley. And here's a link to a good LA Times article about how he drew up the plays to free up Fitzgerald against Carolina:

www.latimes.com/.../la-sp-nfl-cardinals14-2009jan14,0,2020150.story

giantsfan, I'd take Grimm, Ryan, Shanahan (if he doesn't take a year off), the guy from Iowa who has his name pop up all the time as an NFL-Head-Coach-in-Waiting (Frentz?) and who all my friends who know the coaching world say is the best of the bunch and will probably get the KC job (and would have been offered others if he was willing to move out of the Midwest), and probably a few O-Coordinators I'm not thinking of at the moment.

And that article is what KG wants written about himself.

How good really is Shanahan? I mean he had John Elway, Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith.

After them, Denver was pretty mediocre. They had some high offensive years, but their defense blew it repeatedly.

Why is eagles DC Jim Johnson never mentoined for Head Coaching positions after what his defenses have done over the last 8 years?

I'm not a huge Shanahan fan myself. I think he's somewhat overrated and owes much of his legacy to having coached alongside one of the greatest NFL QBs of all time.

As giantsfan correctly points out, Shanny is clueless when it comes to anything having to do with defense. And for a guy that's supposedly a QB guru, he's had shockingly little success in curbing Cutler's penchant for the bonehead play.

FF55 - As any Arizona Cardinal fan will tell you (all two of them) that O is Whisenhunts.  

Its his system.  

He calls the plays on Sunday.

He installs the game plan.

Haley is mostly a figure head/consultant.  Its Whisenhunt who runs that O.

Shock - age.  JJ is old.

norm - for a QB "genius," Shanny's actually had little success with ANYONE outside of Elway.  He's got a good little blocking scheme going on up in Denver, but really, his Qbs since Elway leave little to be desired.  

Though I like Cutler and don't think you can blame everything on him given their lack of D and any RBs this year.

Jim Johnson is very well paid.  He has one of the rarest things in the NFL... absolute job security.  He's smart enough to realize this... unlike Spags.

Cutler probably has the most jaw-dropping physical skills of any QB in the NFL but I'd be hard pressed to think of any who are stupider. Some of it may be due to inexperience, but the guy is a flat out moron who makes some of the worst decisions I've ever seen a QB make on a football field.

FF55 said ... " don't even know the name of the guy who holds that position for Arizona, but he showed more creativity in 60 minutes than Gilbride has his entire career."

Here are some posts from an Arizona fan board on the topic if Haley possibly leaving for a HC job ...

"I would see this as no loss, but actually gaining by subtraction"

"Good riddance, Todd. We hardly knew ya..."

I think i read somewhere that JJ was not good at interviewing for a HC position. Teams never felt confident he can lead a them. So he finally decided to stay as a DCoord.

I actually think Spags will be back at this point.  Unless he really wants to sign up for the Lions or the Chiefs job.  I wouldn't want either one of those jobs if I was him.  He'd be better off waiting another year and bruilding his resume to take a good job.  Ryan is a much better fit with his 3-4 scheme IMO.  

I actually think Detriot is a great spot for him. I mentioned this earlier:

They can build the team around a fantastic #1 WR and a pretty good RB. They have a few play makers on defense as well, starting with Ernie Simms.

And if I were them, I would go after Chris Simms this offseason as well.

They have a good amount of draft picks this year, thanks to Dallas.

Good situation for Spags, I think.

As far as I see it....nearly anyone would be better than Gilbride at this point....except for maybe Jim Fassel.

I just want an OC who's balanced with the passing/ground attack, BUT if something is working he'll keep it up without all those crappy trickery plays. That play with the direct snap to Ward PISSED me the hell off...

Todd Haley was the Wide receivers coach for the cowboys last year.

I agree re: Cutler, but I suspect he will start to learn the position and then will be considered the best of the best. No one since Elway has had his physical tools.

I don't know, I'm not absolutely in love with Shanahan but if I were hiring a new head coach I think I'd still take him over an untested assistant like Spags. Don't get me wrong, I like Spags and wish he would stay. I'm just not convinced he's ready to be a head coach and there's really no way of knowing until he tries it.

Whenever you hire an assistant as your new head coach you hope you're capturing lightning in a bottle. But there are HUGE differences between running a defense, or an offense, and running a team. The skills and attributes that are critical to one frequently are irrelevant in the other.

Any team that hires Spags is taking a shot in the dark, as is he. It could work out brilliantly, but I don't think he has been around long enough in a position of real authority to really be ready to take the next step. I think he could still use a year or two of seasoning. And I still maintain that his best move would be to stay put and have a pretty strong indication that he will coach the Giants in 2012 and in the meantime will have some input (along with Coughlin and the O-Coordinator) into who the FO goes after in the draft and free agency. He could be made Assistant Head Coach as early as tomorrow (which might have the additional benefit of getting Gilbride to WANT out) at $3MM per annum, have absolute job security, have a few more years to get comfortable with how he would want to run a team, and then be handed the position he should want anyway.

I am happy to see that ELI is going to get a big Contract..Even though im still pissed at him.Lets not get crazy,,,Its A great thing to have a Franchise QB..Otherwise your just the Lions,Bears,Bucs,Jets,Rams,and probably about what 10 other teams.

With ELI we know as long as there is a decent team around him we will be in the Playoff mix..Lets Just hope this was the last time we see him play that bad at home..

Also(MADDEN ALERT!!),I dont think it would make much sense to look at Julius Peppers because we dont have a starting spot for him..But Damn it would be nice if we could rotate Tuck,Peppers and Osi..I believe Peppers can move inside as well..Yes I realize that this is MADDEN TALk,but what the heck...

Here is A good free agent Listings Website..Boy After T.J. THe WR postion is so weak.Unless you like McDONALD or Devery Henderson..

www.footballsfuture.com/.../wr.html

I wouldn't crap on Spags too much after what he did with this defense last year and this.  He lost Strahan, Osi and Gibril, plus Kawika.  He had to switch Kiwi back to end and rely on two rookies in the secondary.  With the exception of Pierce, he seems to know good young blood whens he sees it and is willing to give those guys a try early.  who knows if how early is dependent on TC's views.  who knows what he might have done had Goff stayed healthy beyond the first preseason game.

I for one hope Spags is back.  If it is TC, KG and a DC to be naamed later, I think the team starts '09 in a decided coaching hole.

Bryan, you are really something.

First you explain that the offense is really Whisenhunt's (I didn't know that, and appreciate the information), which means it was he I should properly have praised, and then you post something that is intended to diminish my credibility by showing that the Cards fans would love to see the O-Coodinator, whom I just mistakenly praised and admitted I know nothing about, leave.

Obsessive are we?

Well, I guess when someone around here manages to punch holes in all your arguments (or sometimes ignore them as irrelevant and beyond annoying and clearly unworthy of answers) it may lead to a need to make him look bad from time-to-time.

But get your rejoinders right. You can critique me for not knowing it was Wisenhunt's defense (absolutely correct, but I admitted as much by saying I didn't even know the name of the guy who created the offensive plan for that game) or for praising a guy who doesn't deserve praise (and in this case I think Wisenhunt, or whomever came up with the offensive plan, very much DOES deserve it), but not both.

Carry on. But don't start an argument over the no-name coordinator for the Cards. No one cares.

And let's be frank, if our offense did ANYTHING last weekend, he will be game planning on how to blitz the heck out of Warner right now.

I wonder if Spags' seeming desire to bolt is a function of his view that TC is too slow to play young players, or his refusal to play certain players, or his refusal to play certain players in the right position.  

Giantsfan, didn't Fox take Carolina to the NFC Championship game in '05, after kicking our butt, didn't they beat Chicago and then lose to Seattle?  Or was it the other way around?

Haley is going to have to dram up about a dozon of those plays this weekend if he hopes to avoid Jim Johnson's defense turning warner into the human turnover

Heres an interesting tidbit...

By Tony Pisano

"In this article I will breakdown over 50 NFL CBs individually. I watched all 256 NFL regular season games and made extensive notes on almost every CB in the league. Based on the statistics I created, and the eyes in which I watched the games, I have created a list of the top 50 CBs, and a few extras.

30. Kevin Dockery, New York Giants

Season Totals: 40 attempts, 5.53 YPA, 32.50 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: Why is Aaron Ross starting over this guy? Not only did Dockery post impressive numbers, but Ross posted arguably the worst numbers in the league. Here they are side by side.

Dockery: 40 attempts, 5.53 YPA, 32.50 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

Ross: 81 attempts, 9.11 YPA, 19.75 Forced INC%, 4 TDs, 3 INTs

It’s not even necessary to break these numbers down, they speak for themselves. Dockery is a better CB than Aaron Ross, it’s that simple. Ross is young and could still develop into a quality CB, but it he shouldn’t be starting for anyone, especially the defending Super Bowl champions."

Samard --  I wonder if that's another one of those lies, damn lies, and statistics.  The obvious question, is what receiver did Dockery cover v. Ross.  Did Ross get the better of the two?  I would think so.

The real question as far as the Giants go, is does Terrell Thomas take Ross' spot next year or does Thomas become Phillips' safety mate

Samard,

Wow; just wow.

I don't know what to believe: those stats or my lying eyes.

Samard  --  Are you sure Bryan didn't write that article?

Jim, you are correct. I forgot that season. I may have stopped watching football after that stomping haha.

Haha I knew that was going to get you all riled up. Ill toss in something you will like to make up for it..

2. Corey Webster, New York Giants

Season Totals: 66 attempts, 3.92 YPA, 65.15 Forced INC%, 1 TD, 3 INTs

My two cents: Did Corey Webster seriously not make the Pro Bowl? I have come to terms with the Pro Bowl being absolutely meaningless, but that is just ridiculous. There wasn’t an NFC CB to even come close to the level on which Webster played. He led all CBs with a 3.92 YPA, and a 65.15 forced incompletion percentage. The only TD he allowed was to Terrell Owens in a week nine victory.

Good for Corey!

Well Corey are Aaron are our starting two Cornerbacks. Naturally, they both probably spend the most time covering the top two opposing offense's WRs.

Meanwhile, dockery comes in on occasion and takes a lesser receiver. The stats may be skewed.

Samard- Whats the link to that?

Not sure what the link to the original article is, but I found the article published at its full extent at here:

www.footballsfuture.com/.../viewtopic.php

Well it looks like that Rex Ryan will likely be the next head coach for the New York Jets the Jets will likely announce it right after the Steelers-Ravens game if the Ravens lose. Which that is great news to hear because that makes Spags chances of likely staying with the Giants even greater. Now there's one more team left that's in the running for Spags and that's the Chiefs since they hired Pioli as the GM. This is when if I was the Giants I will name Spagnuolo as Coughlin's successor and will be the next Giants head coach. I mean look at what Spags did to the Giants defense losing Gibril, Kawika, Osi and Strahan and still coached his defense to a top 10 defense in the league.

Oh and in NFL draft news Oklahama QB Bradford and TE Gresham decided that they are staying in school

Defensive backfield stats are almost as irrelevant as those for quarterbacks and receivers. They are so dependent upon circumstances (game situation; does the guy get thrown at?: what quality of receiver is he covering?; is the quarterback he's facing better at a particular throw than others?; etc.).

You could show me every statistic in the book, hit me over the head with a 2'x4", show me Dockery making some plays and Ross falling down and giving up a big play (as he did twice this season), and I would STILL tell you that Ross is the better cornerback. Now, is he better than Thomas? That I do not know. My guess is that he's not, but I'm very happy to have all three of them. Dockery is depth unless he ever learns to play the ball on a consistent basis. If he vastly improves his ball skills then perhaps he can come on and become a top cornerback, but not until then.

The Jets are right to pick Ryan over Spags. He's a 3-4 guy with a longer resume in positions of real responsibility.

I think Spags would be a good fit in KC, but I suspect he won't get that job. In the end, he will not regret it if he's still in New York next season. If we have the kind of draft I expect reese/Ross to have then this defense should be dominating, and Spags' reputation will keep rising. He'll also have another year of experience and be a much better head Coach if he gets a job in 2010.

The only reason I might make him an Assistant Head Coach is if it would drive Gilbride out the door in a fit of pique.

Damn, all these kids staying in school are defeating my expectation that an extremely deep draft filled with additional underclassmen would make the Giants 4th and 5th round picks the equivalent of 3rd rounders in many other years.

The Saints' pick that we get in the 5th round should still be quite valuable, as should the supplemental pick we will be getting at no later than the end of the 4th round, but once we get down to our #140-145 pick in that 5th round we're back to the real crapshoots.

Still, that gives us at least 7 really good picks. April can't come soon enough.

I would like to address the age old NFL myth that "defense wins championships".... I believe that great strength in one singular area wins championships. For example, The 2001 rams WR. The Giants of the 80s did it with GREAT linebackers (2 HOFers), any of the Pats championships could be attributed to strength at the qb position, and they even had a defensive one at lb, explaining why they won so many championships. The Giants of 07 won it on defensive line.... Now, alot of things on all sides of the ball go into winning championships, so I think it can be difficicult to formulate an exact equation for winning champinships, a quarterback is certainly an integral part. BUT, great strength in any one area can pose quite a conundrum for any opponent. For example, how does one plan on blocking Tuck, Osi, and Strahan? Or, how do you defend Issac Bruce and Tory Holt? A great great strength in a single area can be seen in all of the remaining teams, its not hard to identify. When 2 of those mammoth srtengths collide, it comes down to execution and game planning, as it did with the Giant defensive line against Tom Brady. You were left wondering how it seemed so easy to get to Tom Brady.... With that said, the Giants strength went down in the pre season, with Osi. Ill be willing to bet anything that we continue to go after pass rushers this off season, and if a guy like Evrette Brown falls to us in round 2, we will instantly scoop him up. He, Osi, Tuck, Robbins and co will cover up any and all defensive inequties that you may see on our defense, and that will propell us to another championship. As for the season we had in light of losing him, the strength we had was offensive line and rb, a strength that when used properly (even down the stretch, such as against Carolina when we were without Plax) can dominate anyone. Fortunately for us, our DEFENSIVE coordinator knows how to use a major strength thats right under his nose to take his team all the way. As for the offense, There was only one game where we truly came out and played smash mouth football, using our great line to cover up other ineqities... And that was against Carolina. In the Final game of the year (a loss), we were without our great strength on defense, and thus it was left in the hands of the offense and Kevin Gilbride.... And sure enough, he came out with a finesse gameplan which failed to pit our strength against our opponent. My hope... is that in 09, the traditional Giant strength of a great pass rush will return.... And yield yet another Lombardi Trophy

55, I hear that:-)

so i played around with our draft needs in the drafttek simulator, with LB, S, WR being our biggest needs and heres what it came up with:

1: Clint Sintim

2: Derek Peagus, S

2: Feneki Tupou, OT Oregon

3: Brian Robiskie, WR Ohio State

FF55 after that crappy offensive gameplan by Gilbride he is almost a lock at this point for Reese to fire his sorry @$$ his offensive playcalling is crap and always was. Reese knows very well that his playcalling was the reason why the Giants are not playing in the NFC Championship game. Jacobs 19 carries and 92 yards is an insane game from Jacobs and that really shows that Gilbride went pass happy all game instead of using the Giants strength which was the running game. So Spags getting the assistant head coach job and being named as Coughlin's successor will not  be the problem.

And with Osi coming back next season along with the draft the defense will be even more dominating and the offense should improve if Plax comes back or the Giants grab a WR that will really help the passing game whether it's via free agency or via trade. The Giants will probably be the heavy favorites to win the superbowl in 2009 season and if they don't then I won't be surprised if Coughlin goes to lead the way for Spags to take over.

The Giants were idiots for letting John Fox leave to become a head coach elsewhere because they wanted to stick with Fassel they won't let Spags slip away.

Coughlin likes to be pass happy as well he is a pass happy coach also that's why he hired Gilbride in the first place. Spags will use that great running game to his advantage if he was head coaching right now.

axr29 - First off, I'd love Sintim in the first. I honestly think he's more of a 2nd rounder, but I don't think he'd last til our first 2nd round pick, therefore we'd have to pick him in the first...so even though it may be a stretch, it'd be a worthy one. The guy is flat out PERFECT to play SAM in this defense. Seriously, he looks like he was made just to play this. I haven't seen all that much of him (more stats than actual game play), but he reminds me of Kawika Mitchell, but faster with more big play ability.

As for the other picks...I LOVE Robiskie in the 2nd round. I'm a huge Buckeye fan (yeah, not the best of luck in bowls lately it seems). He honestly reminds me of a bigger version of Steve Smith, but not quite as good of a route runner, nor is he as fast, quick, or have the same hands. However, he does find ways to get open and he was Pryor's safety blanket for most of the season it seemed. So in the 3rd? Yeah, I'd take him there. He could be a solid #2.

Pegues is decent, but his value fell. A year ago he had 5 INT and better playmaking ability. I don't think he'd be a bad pick, but I think our first 2nd rounder is too early for him.

the simulator had stafford going to the jets at 17...

billy s- yea i wouldnt be angry over any of those picks.

A guy i would look at in the 3rd would be Mohammaed Massoquoi or however u spell it

AXr, were did Rashad Johnson go?

Stafford is going back to school, so scratch that one lol.

And I'm not saying they're bad picks, I just think that the 2nd rounders are a bit of a reach with the simulator. I don't mind the 1st and 3rd rounders at all. I'd LOVE those picks.

And Mohamed Massaquoi wouldn't be a bad choice either. He's pretty fast for a 6'2" receiver.

Bryan, I have been reading these posts for three days and I agree with you 100%.Did Gilbride call a few bad plays,sure.But to blame him for the loss is silly.Funny how nobody cried when we were 11&1 and leading the league in scoring.If Eli would have completed a few more we would not be talking about this.

samard- it only shows the first 3 rounds in the simulator and johnson didnt go in any three of them

Satfford has declared already

Wow, you can't really blame John Fox for Fitz getting open in the Cards-Panthers game.  The Arizona OC had a very creative game plan involving something other than Fitz running 5 yards and turning around (pay attention Killdrive).  He got open because of the scheme.  Look at what the slow, small receivers of the Steelers did against a superior Chargers secondary... lots of crossing routes and decoys routes left receivers wide open.  

Look at the trend folks.. whenever Killdrive is fired as the OC from a team, that team's passing game and WR play increase exponentially.   This guy is like a bad cold that just won't go away.

Rashad Johnson in th third would be great value. One of the best safeties in this draft..

Oh whoops, it was Bradford I was thinking of that didn't declare.

Factcheck is right, I mean what other explanation is there for a man getting punched in the face by his head coach?

Rashad Johnson would be great 3rd round value...I see him going in the early 2nd round. Hell, I wouldn't mind him in the 2nd round.

Corey Webster didn't make the ProBowl for the same reason that Packers CB Al Harris (the guy Plax lit up like burnt toast) made it... INTs.  It's the ugly truth but making a fair share of picks gets far more attention than playing solid defense.  This is why Philly went gaga over Asante Samuel.  He gets burned as many times as he makes plays.  Heck, Steve Smith had him beat in the second play of the game last Sunday.

samardzija- totally agree...right now id draft this way:

1- Sintim

2- Fili Moala DT USC/Juaquin Iglesias WR OK

2- Rashad Johnson

3- Tyson Jackson DE LSU

Kyle- just a clarification.  Gilbridge didn't get punched in the face by his head coach, he got punched in the face by the defensive coordinator.  Buddy Ryan got sick and tired of his defense picking up the slack after Gilbride's play calling kept giving the other team the ball.

I would absolutely die if that's how the draft worked out ... but I doubt Johnson would be available that late in the 2nd & I don't see Jackson falling to the end of the 3rd round.

Any thoughts on the Gators Louis Murphy in the later round (3rd or 4th)?  He has size, great speed and has become good friends with David Tyree (who spoke at his graduation party).

billy- ive heard johnson being a late 2nd early 3rd

This is what I would do:

1.) Clint Sintim (OLB - Virginia)

2a.) Rashad Johnson (S - Alabama)

2b.) Larry English (DE - Norther Illinois)

3.) Brian Robiskie (WR - Ohio State)

factcheck- hes got size and speed but his football iq has been questioned and id be careful about the guys who come from the spread offense

Number 5....

espn.go.com/.../wildcoaches.html

Yeah I got RJ as a aecond rounder myself.. After Mays disappeared he is right around the 5-4 spot in my safety rankings.

billy- i like english but he may be too small as a DE, and doesnt have the speed to make up for the lack of size

Tyson Jackson is not dropping that far, one of the best 3-4 DE prospects out there. First day for sure.

Your right factcheck- My mistake

Another Safety worth mentioning is Chip Vaughn. He is going to be on display in the Senior Bowl. One of my sleepers as of now, could be a great prospect

samard- the highest ive seen jackson is first in the 3rd but would u go

1- Sintim

2- Johnson

2- Jackson

3- Massoqoui?

Re: Coughlin getting fired -

I didn't want to seem like a guy jumping to extremes after a devastating playoff loss but I thought about Krow's suggestion. Mostly, I was thinking about the way we've ended our seasons under Coughlin (minus last year obviously) and I know someone addressed it earlier. It seems like every year is the same thing. We start off really strong (this year, extremely strong) and then we taper off and fail when it really matters. The players and assistants have changed but Coughlin has remained...and (for the most part) so has our inability to close out a season.

It'll never happen, but I've certainly thought about it.

samard- dont see vaughn going till late 3rd early 4th...what do u think?

samard- u get the email i sent u the other day through giants 101?

Tyson Jackson doesn't fit into a 4-3 defense and he's not falling into the 3rd round. He's a prototypical 3-4 DE and a lot of 3-4 teams will want him.

Taking a WR late, unless Reese really thinks he's a sleeper with HUGE potential, is worthless. We already have a million #2's and #3's, why add ANOTHER one?

Jackson isnt really a guy who fits our system, hes more of a 3-4 guy. Not so high on Massaquoi either, terribly inconsistent and has had a case of the dropsies.

If Sintim is our choice, that means Kiwi beefsup some and stays on the line, so no need for adressing thet end spot, but some help in the middle would be nice. Vance Walker or Ziggy Hood in the bottom of the second perhaps. I would even take a long look at big Ron Brace, huge space eater from BC that would make it pretty tough to run down the middle.

Im pretty sure most of the receivers worth going for in the second is gone, so in the third Id might give Ramses Barden a strong look if hes still available.

I don't know if Larry English is too small... he's 6'3", 255, and runs a 4.75 40.

I agree he's definitely not the fastest, and not the biggest...but keep in mind Osi is 6'3", 261. Osi is more of a speed guy, English, although not quite as fast, does possess the ability to get to the ball carrier.

50 games, 212 tackle, 57 tackles for loss, 32.5 sacks ... not bad.

Samardzija - I love Ramses Barden...he broke Jerry Rice's NCAA record with 27 straight games with a TD.

He's got TREMENDOUS size, good hands, and his speed is underrated...he's not "fast" or even "quick", but he moves well for his size.

He didn't play against top level competition either, but hey...neither did Brandon Jacobs. SIZE and ABILITY are the most important things in my eyes. Ramses has that, just like Jacobs had that...

Normally I would agree with you TT, but I belive that Barden could be worth a gamble in the third.

axr, fourth sounds about right as of this moment.

I answered your mail as well, Im down for it, just hit me with what you want. Gonna be insanely busy until the 23rd though, just so you know

Billy, Ramses is going to play in the East-West shrine game, Im going to be following him closely

I've watched every youtube vid on Ramses...the only problem is that they're extremely crappy vids. Hopefull he gets to showcase his talent in that game. He's got terrific size and good hands. There's always a chance he could wind up one of those Dwayne Jarrett type busts...but in the 3rd round that's the kind of talent you gamble a pick on.

Samardzija - That's why I threw in the  "HUGE potential" disclaimer. If Barden can prove he can get separation in the NFL, than I'd certainly say he has huge potential. One scary thing I've heard about him is he has knee problems but I'm sure that will be looked at extensively.

Yeah if he has knee problems, the combine will straighten that out. We will be left looking stupid on draft day though, kinda like with Erin Henderson last year

I would like to note that I was practically the only person here that did NOT want Erin Henderson at all while most others were calling for him to be drafted with our 1st or 2nd round picks.

I took a lot of heat for that too. Probably because I suggested the only reason a lot of people wanted him was because he gave Giants101 an interview. Regardless, my point stands.

Question for you draftniks:

With Taylor Mays now out of the draft, does that automatically give a big boost to Moore's stock?

I'd heard talk of Moore possibly dropping (like Phillips last year) but I guess with Mays returning to USC, Moore is now the de facto #1 safety and probably goes in the top half of the first round.

I personally didn't think Moore was going to fall to us anyway but this makes it even less likely. Moore was nicked up this year and was overweight, as I'm sure you've heard.The only way he would have dropped is if he would have showed up at the combine still overweight and slow. I wouldn't want him anyway if that happened...

I'd also like to add I have no idea what Taylor Mays is thinking staying in college for another year. He was the #1 safety in this class and was going to go in the Top 15. Now next year, he has to battle with Eric Berry for the number 1 safety spot which is a battle he'll probably lose. Not to mention the usual risks associated with going back to school like injury, poor season, off the field incidents that lower your draft stock, etc.

after reading moores scouting report again his negatives remind me so much of butler. Granted hes better, but thats just what it reminds me of.

Samard- we were going to start the draft stuff after the superbowl. I never got that email so email me your email address or leave it here.

email: axr29@dowling.edu

www.eastrutherfordrant.com

Troy- I was the one who bought up Coughlins short comings earlier. Like I siad I love the guy but you gotta kinf=da wonder a little bit.

By the way, telling McCoy to shut his C'ock Garage was one of your best blasts ever!

okay so i redid the simulator two more times before i hit the bar for the night, this time setting it so we take Rashad Johnson

Taking Johnson round 2:

1: Sintim

2: Johnson

2: Louis Murphy

3:  Ron Brace Dt, BC

When i set it to take johnson round 3, baltimore grabbed him before we could.

Good news on the KG Front

www.profootballtalk.com/.../real-interview-coming-for-gilbride

Though Giants receiver Plaxico Burress undoubtedly would prefer victory in a certain piece of criminal litigation pending against him, he finagled on Wednesday a victory in a civil action filed against him for damages to a vehicle.

An automobile dealer soutght $19,000 from Burress for damage to a truck that had been loaned to Burress, supposedly in exchange for making personal appearances.

A jury in Lebanon County, Pennsylvania found that Burress is responsible for only $1,700.

Anyone who hates a Giant cannot be a Giants fan. We don't have to love them all, but we need to support them all and hope they do well.

Having said that, I have been, and remain, an Eli skeptic. He didn't deserve MVP in the Super Bowl, all pro status and the various other awards. He is, at best, an adequate QB. Giving him squillions of dollars is a waste.

Because I am a Giants fan, beginning wit YA Tittle, I hope Eli proves me very very wrong.

YA Tittle brought all sorts of titles and playoff seasons to New York. Thus, I can understand why you find him to be superior to Eli Manning.

OFFSEASON OFF TOPIC

With interviews like this,How is my Sirius stock worth just 12 cents lol..BUY Sirius....

Paul McCartney on Howard Stern today ,A great Interview for any fans ..Check it out..

Part 1

www.youtube.com/watch

Part 2

www.youtube.com/watch

Part 3

www.youtube.com/watch

Re: the link DEMO posted....

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

Take that job you ignorant pri*k

I have come around to realize that the Giants should do whatever they can to get a safety with range in the first round. I feel like they should also make their "name" signing with Haynesworth.

With Haynesworth, Robbins, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi blitzing, I believe you'd have the pressue to allow our up-and-coming secondary with the new safety that can cover to really take a significant step up to a dominant defense. I'm not saying they could get as many sacks as 2007, but I think it could be close. And I think such a defense could hide the inability of Pierce to cover, which will hold us over until an athletic middle linebacker can be had.

Haynesworth and a safety. Do it.

Let's get real the Giants are not going to fire Coughlin and as long as he stays so does Killdrive.

They should sign Jacobs and let Ward go he is good, but he is 29 years old and that is old for a runing back. There are 2 good backs behind him in Bradbury and Ware. Runong back is not the problem with the Giants offense, trhe play calling stinks.

They need another wide receiver with size and they have 2 good pass catching tight ends who could have been better utalized against the Eagles and who covered them with line backers.

Pierce may be a good vocal leader but he is terrible as a middle line  backer, he can't defend the pass and never gets pentration on blitz's or against the run.

Butler should put on 10 more pounds and be moved to line backer, he can tackle and could cover backs out of the backfield better than any of the corrent LB's.

I guess they should sign Eli to a long term deal, but he has not played well in the last few games and don't blame it on the lack of Plax because he was missing open receivers an awful lot. He doesn't throw a tight spiral and that was his undoing in the wind Sunday.

Yes, on pass rushing downs, having Osi, Tuck, Haynesworth, Robbins on the line, Kiwi and Pierce at linebacker with Kiwi blitzing occasionally, Webster and Thomas on the outside, Ross in the slot (where he excelled with Madison on the outside last year) and

Phillips and a New Safety, this defense would be sick actually. That defense would be the best defense the Giants have put on the field since the LT days.

This is awesome!

Eagles fans defined

1- FAGS. Homos who play third string quarterbacks that pay more attention touching the centers genitals than scoring touchdowns

2 - Trashy people from either Philadelphia or the Southern region of New Jersey. They claim they are the most loyal fans in the NFL....ONLY when their team is on the brink of a (soon to be a failure) Super Bowl Run. But as soon as their team loses, they disown their team and bash them to pieces...

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php

(part 2 from last post)

They boo the away team louder than they cheer their own, take pride in fact The Vet will only be remembered as a ***-hole, oblivious that the Eagles are the only NFC East team NOT to win a Super Bowl, think they are cool and flashy by celebrating an Eagles touchdown by singing a pathetic nursery song, watching 500 people on the field between assholes with flags/cheerleaders, and shooting off fireworks, they will YELL...i mean whisper that your team sucks if you wear another NFC East team's jersey in public, but only if they are with a large group of people, but otherwise will keep their mouth shut, watched Ronde Barber take it to house at the last football game at the vet and we're still laughing, fans that were 12 last time the Eagles won a championship are now collecting social security.

the list goes on....

This trashy Eagles fan told me "The Giants Suck" on the day NYG got their super bowl rings. Can you point out the irony in that one?

Q: How many times did the Giants sack that *** McNabb on September 30th, 2007?

Real Answer: 12

Eagles fan's Answer: Winston Justice was in there, and Dawkins didn't play, and, and....um....Westbrook was hurt...

never mind...idiot.

trash eagles fan 1960 mcnabb cheesesteaks are nasty

by Dr. Jarrod Franklin Jul 16, 2008 share this add comment

3. Eagles fan 36 up, 88 down love ithate it

an eagles fan is one of the most dangerous people you will ever meet. dont dare get caught talking *** on the eagles in front of him/her or expect a punch in the face or a bottle over the head. the only thing more dangerous than an eagles fan is a large group of them, especially while intoxicated. anyone who has attended an eagles game in philly wearing an opposing team's gear will tell you it was the worst mistake of thier life, and that walking onto the 700 level of The Vet with that jersey on was like walking through the gates of hell. eagles fans are known around the league as some of the worst and most feared, by fans AND players. several teams, as well as santa claus himself have been pelted unmercifully by fans with snowballs packed with ice and batteries. if you ever find yourself face to face with an eagles fan just give them a snappy "Go Birds!" and be on your way, anything else is suicide.

hey, look at that eagles fan beating the *** outta that dumb *** with the cowboys jersey on.

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

Are we in the Twilight zone?

Garafolo revisits the idea of bringing in Gonzalez

www.nj.com/.../mg_speculates_could_chiefs_shu.html

There is a better chance that we Sign Haynesworth,Peppers,Dansby and T.J. Housh then TC getting Fired..

Fitz,

Why?

Sorry, misread.

I hereby pledge to send Al Davis a quart of my own blood for his drinking pleasure if he offers the Raider head coaching job to Killdrive.

Gotta say, I wasn't all that impressed by Rashad Johnson the two times I saw him play this season. I also thought the 'Bama DT that everyone was drooling about is a total stiff.

Sintim would be a good choice even if the Giants want to have Kiwi move to SAM, although I agree with Samardzija that if they have decided to go that way they'd be better off drafting a DE first (but another linebacker in a later round). The reason is that Sintim could probably also play MIKE and so could be put into the competition for linebacking spots along with everyone else. Create enough competition there and maybe we wind up with a lot better group during the season.

I agree with Troy that unless there's a sleeper out there using a mid-round pick on a wide receiver is useless. If we're going after a wide receiver who can compete for the #1 job then we need a stud. If we don't draft him early then we're better off going the trade route (there is no one available in free agency who I want). We have a lot of #2, #3, #4 and #5 receivers already on the roster. No need for more.

There are a few things that Reese knows that we don't, and that are critical to whatever draft strategy the Giants take. Until we have a better idea about these approaches it's somewhat useless to start evaluating who we'd take and in what round. So, what things need to be resolved?

Will they try to get Plax back to play him or to trade him?

How much did Kehl and Goff show this year in addition to the limited play we saw on the field on Sundays?

Where do they want Kiwi to play in 2009?

Are they going to pay BJ whatever it takes to keep him?

How promising did Manningham look?

Is Henderson healed, and if so what about him made them decide to keep him? Do they expect him to make a contribution in 2009?

Are they satisfied with Ruegamer, Whimper, Boothe and Koets as the depth on the O-line, and if so will they be able to sign Ruegamer?

Is Alford a slow-developing guy (as some DTs are) or was he as big a disappointment to the coaches as he was to the fans?

Is Toomer going to brought back? Is Tyree going to be brought back to babysit Plax and add some talent to Special Teams?

Is Tynes going to be the placekicker in 2009?

Who, if any, among the free agents will Reese target? Will he try to execute a trade for a wide receiver or linebacker?

Answer those questions, which we cannot at this point, and we will know much more about the proper construction of a draft. Until then, it really makes little sense to spend time on much other than evaluating prospects at a few of the positions that the Giants might need to address no matter what the answers above prove to be.

Ohio State WR Hartline to enter NFL draft

In 2006, the Giants end their season as a lesser team in a competitve playoff game lost on a last-second field goal, and every paper in New York is all over the "Fire Coughlin" theme.

In 2008, the Giants are embarassingly unprepared and outcoached as a superior team, especially on offense, and these same papers have barely any play on the "Fire Gilbride" theme.

This draft is going to be deep...Penn State’s Maybin to enter NFL draft

Okay, I needed a few days to hide out after that loss.  I took it hard, and didn't want to think about anything football-wise for a few days.  Indeed I've missed a lot.  The further Plaxico drama, Dave Meggett's issues, all the coach hirings, draft speculation, and the very-expected Real Bryan McCoy appearances (he has to be revelling in all Giant fans disappointment).  

My girlfriend who has previously demonstrated no interest whatsoever in football throughout her life developed a love for the Giants through the season. Things progressed this season to the point that after last sundays loss she was almost as devastated as I.  She was even pointing out the helmet-first contact by Dawkins, the jawing by Samuels, or the lack of class by McNabb.   So even with this very disappointing loss (Gilbride, I'm looking at you pal) - I still have this positive to draw from it all.   So there's my silver lining.

Now there's obviously a lot of off-season issues to discuss, and I promise I'm in for the conversation from this point on.   FF55 -  all good questions, but I found your mention of Kirk Ferentz even more interesting.   The Browns aren't hiring him, but now that Pioli is in KC, they might.  If not - he's seriously worthy of consideration  (his guys knocked off the at-the time unbeated Penn State Nittany Paterno's with a much-less talented team), he gets everything out of his guys, and his defences have always been very solid.  

Oh and Norm and Kyle - hilarious new display pics.  

Last thing - the Giants WILL NOT fork out the money other teams will throw at Haynesworth.  It aint happening - so lets let that one go eh?

Only Al the Cryptkeeper can save us now.

New York Giants' O-line coach leaving to join Miami Dolphins

Giants assistant offensive line coach Dave DeGuglielmo has interviewed with the Dolphins to become their new offensive line coach. Someone informed of the progress of DeGuglielmo's talks said Wednesday night that he was offered and accepted the Miami job. The person asked not to be named because the Dolphins haven't announced the hiring yet but could do so as soon as Thursday.

Just hire, baby!

Tynes did not look that great on Sunday.  He may have kicked one into the zone.

Now this is fucking hilarious:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Kevin_Gilbride

I have Our answer at WR..

T.O at 1..

Chad Johnson at 2.

Smith as the Slot

Hixon as the 4/KR

LOL..But really It does look like dallas may get rid of Mr T.O.

Sources: Dallas may release Owens

At least two sources believe that vice president Stephen Jones will attempt to convince his father that Owens should be finished with the Cowboys. But Jerry Jones just last year invested a $12 million signing bonus in Owens, which means there would be salary-cap fallout. In fact, Jerry Jones has suggested that there might be enough damage that the team would find it difficult to sign NFL sack leader DeMarcus Ware to a new contract.

"I think some of people want to just cut our losses and get rid of all those guys … T.O., Tank, Pacman,'' another Cowboys source said. "But I really think Jerry likes the thrill of trying to make it all work."

Norm- I laughed my ass off at that. Its he is listed as Kevin "Killdrive" Gilbride

Interesting take on the Gilbride situation on the above link.  For those of you who missed it, the speculation is that Al Davis wants Killdrive as his offensive coordinator but is bringing him in with the guise that he will be offered the HC job.  I don't care if Davis wants him to be his butler, so long as he outta the tri-state area, I will make a donation to the charity of Al Davis' choice.

T.O. as a Giant?

That's a good one. If he'd been a member of the Giants last Sunday, he would have had to hire a whole fleet of buses to throw Eli under. Just one wouldn't have been enough.

Geez,,,One thing you see about Gilbride in that Wiki..Is how many short,I guess Failed stints as Offensive Coordinator for different teams hes had..I guess most of these teams couldnt deal with his stubborn Coaching more then a year or two..

I'm guessing that wikipedia article was edited by a Giants fan immediately following last Sunday's game.

where is Syversten?

Syversten where are you.......

Steve Smith...

When the season started there was discussion on where #12 fit into the lineup.  Obviously he's not a #1, but is he a possession WR or a slot?

I was of the opinion that he was a #2... and the heir apparent to Amani Toomer.  But he ended up working primarily out of the #3 hole.

Next year it's pretty clear that Toomer is done ... at least as a starter.

What does this mean for Smith?

His numbers do not sound like those put up by slot receivers.  57 catches... 574 yards... 2.4 YAC average.  Especially the YAC.  In addition he had 1 30 yard catch and I believe only 2 others over 20.... 1 TD.  So he's working the short, under patterns.

I guess what I'm asking is ... do we take our best pattern runner and start him... then try to work someone else in the slot?  Manningham for instance.  Who has more speed and was a deep threat in college.  Or do we leave well enough alone and try to replace Toomer at #2?

And also... what do we want out of a slot receiver?  Is it speed and YAC... or a safety valve?  

Anyway... after a few days have passed... I have to admit that ...fueled by anger... it's a lot easier to fire people and cast them into the flames for us fans than it is for the Giant front office.

Coughlin is a solid coach, and we really have no idea whether Spags is the next Bill Belichick or the next Norv Turner.  And Gilbride has been around a long time.  Obviously people "in the business" see things in him  that we don't... that we can't.

Even that fat f'uck Pierce... if he disappeared tomorrow we really don't have anyone better.  

Who knows... we don't have all the information... we're not professional football people.  We see some of this... some of that... and we extrapolate the rest.  

It's fun... and I plan to keep right on doing it.  But I know I could be miles off base.  Hell, I thought Dave Meggett was a good guy.  I wanted Quentin Groves over Kenny Phillips.  Now I want AP dead and KG gone.  Hmmmmm...

Just sayin'.....

New York Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride is scheduled to interview with Raiders managing general partner Al Davis on Thursday.

www.insidebayarea.com/.../ci_11454457

Hey,  if Dallas drops TO we should sign him to replace ...man I cant even Joke about it without throwing up in my mouth.  Abort...Abort

The Manhattan DA is probing whether bullets fired in 2005 by men sitting in a pickup truck on loan to Giants receiver Plaxico Burress can be linked to guns recently seized from the Super Bowl star, sources said.

If Manhattan DA investigators can link ballistics evidence from the 2005 shooting to any of Burress' guns, it could complicate his effort to remain out of jail over the Thanksgiving-weekend nightclub shooting, sources said.

Meanwhile, a Lebanon, Pa., civil jury yesterday ruled that Burress - after he testified yesterday - owed the Pennsylvania auto dealer who loaned him the Chevy $1,705.38 for damage the pickup incurred while impounded by police after the shooting.

www.nypost.com/.../d_a__probes_plax_bullet_link_150255.htm

No decision has been made, but with each passing day it becomes clearer the Jets prefer Ryan to Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo.

www.nypost.com/.../the_ryan_king_150291.htm

Glad to see everyone getting on with things as normal. I haven't been able to post because I'm still in a daze from sunday.

I wonder whether Eli's poor performance will knock 10-20 mil off his contract? Imagine trying to sign him after 2 superbowl MVP's...

p.s. I still think terrell thomas is a superstar and is playing better than kenny phillips, although I like kenny and was glad to see him on the field more.

I think our loss is almost entirely on the offense. The d played very well for the most part, except for the 3rd down conversions which I think is fat antonio's fault. Bring on Lauriniaitis.

Hixon will be a great number 2 WR with smith in the slot, and boss/johnson as tightends. We need plax or a number 1 such as braylon/boldin.

James Laurinaitis will step in for antonio in a heart beat.

If the Giants are unable to fill their perceived need at safety via the draft or free agency, would it make sense to try and convert Terrell Thomas to that position?  I remember reading in his scouting report following the draft that he projected well as an NFL safety.   With Webster and Ross at the corner spots, would be a way to get the kid on the field.

Isn't there another Ryan coaching the Raiders? Rob Ryan I think his name is. It would be funny as hell if he followed in his dad's footsteps and punched Gilbride right in the face.

JCrown- he just left to be the DCord at CLevland with Mangini

Well, as I said earlier, we will probably wake up in a few weeks and realize that we will be heading into the 2009 season with the same basic coaching staff (including Gilbride) and with Antonio Pierce as the #1 guy on the depth chart at MIKE. That's just the way it is, and I think the most we can hope for in regard to Gilbride is that someone (anyone!) forces him to take a different approach.

I suggested a few days ago that a good solution that wouldn't cause a rift between Reese and Coughlin (who will undoubtably defend Gilbride to the death) might be a Reese-initiated hire of a "Quality Control" coach who would be picked by Reese and Coughlin together and told his job was to closely review and critique game planning approaches within the coaches' room; assess use of personnel; and complete a pre-season and post-season review of game approaches and their relationship to wins and loses.

If we get lucky and Spagnuolo is back as the other coordinator (and that is looking more likely every day) then at least we'd have continuity. But someone needs to get to Coughlin and get him to understand and agree that his staff's game planning has not been good enough. I hate to admit this, but give our players to the Eagles' coaches and they would win the Super Bowl. Give the Eagles' players to our coaches and they would not have reached the Conference Championship game 5 out of the past 10 years.

As for Pierce, read him the riot act, get him to mini-camp at the right weight, and make it clear there's true competition for the spot. Realistically, though, he's going to be there next year. Our hope should be that Goff and a rookie who is drafted can truly compete for the MIKE spot for 2010 (or perhaps by half-way through the 2009 season, but that's probably a major stretch).

Pretty Sad that even Clueless Cowgirl fans can see how bad the Gameplan was, but our resident Eagle Fan (TRBM) cant?

"Giants fans all year have enjoyed themselves to the highest level. They have all joined in on bashing the Cowboys coaching staff and how "Stupid" they are, well guess what? Welcome to the club! A trained monkey could have seen what the Giants needed to do to win yesterday, yet they still would not change the gameplan. How is the gameplan going into the game not "give the ball to Jacobs"? It's called EGO! The coaches of the Giants were so confident that they could do whatever they wanted, that the Eagles posed no problem to them, and they believed the hype. Sounds just like the 2007 & 2008 Dallas Cowboys! "

acowboynation.com/.../giants-fans-welcome-to-my-misery.html

Yeah, Thomas could be converted to a safety if the Giants can't get a top player in through the draft. I said when he was drafted that he was physically capable of playing the safety spot. And there has been a trend in the NFL to shift big cornerbacks to cover safety positions (as a matter of fact, it looks like the Cards did that with Rodgers-Cromartie unless that was a one-game deal against the Panthers).

So we actually have two players who can be "swung" to other positions depending upon need: Thomas and Kiwanuka. That does give Reese/Ross a lot more flexibility in regard to going after the BPA, within limits, in the April draft.

My 18 year old cousin, who isn't even a Giants fan, was listening to the game in his car, and even he said to me right after the game "Wow the Giants called an awful game an offense."

Let's hope Kill-drive is more prepared for his interview than Spags was.

demo- hate to say i gotta agree with him. the coaches egos did get in the way.

TMQB- id rather see michael johnson play next to phillips for another year and keep thomas as a CB. Johnson has shown atleast to me that he can be adequate at the safety position.

Because if you move thomas, than you gotta keep him there, i dont want to keep moving him back and forth, id rather see him develop at one of the positions.

FF55- if pierce comes to camp in shape, he can be effective as our MLB

and it sucks not being able to go to work because of the snow.

Moves that would turn me from a "I love Jerry Reese" guy to a "What the hell happened to Jerry Reese?" guy:

1) Extending Pierce's contract;

2) Doing nothing about the "Gilbride problem";

3) Signing TO while dumping Plax;

4) Letting Jacobs walk over less than $1.5MM per annum;

5) Failing to straighten out the kicking issues;

6) Unwillingness to look into a trade for Chad Johnson or Braylon Edwards (neither is likely to be given up by their teams for anything reasonable but Reese HAS to ask and see what would get it done); and

7) Failing to draft a safety with one of the first three picks in April when the draft class is deep in excellent safeties and the Giants need a great one.

btw, #3, above, was a joke.

Demo,

Damn oh well maybe Ryan will pass him on his way out of Oakland in the Airport and punch him for his old man and another punch from all of G101.

JCrown- we can only hope...

FF55- might not even have to trade johnson, he may end up released

Funny thing about johnson is how the begals team site refers to him as Chad Ocho Cinco

Eighth-year pro who has played in the last five Pro Bowls, Ocho Cinco has played in 13 games with 10 stars

Maybe if we are lucky enough to loose Gillbride to the Raiders, he will talk AL into giing up their first rd pick for Plax. If he gave up a 2 and 70 million for Deangelo Hall and Gillbrides offense is Crap without Plax, Maybe AL can do us two big favors. Oaklands pick would be high enough for Crabtree, and as much as I love'd Plax, I still dont see him back next year.

AXR- I cant see them cutting him less than a year after turning down 2 #1's for him. Not Gonna happen , but I could see them trading him for sure

Heres a question:

If Plax is back, do you still get another WR. Lets say plax comes back, and gets hurt. Then your back in the same situation you were this year.

I say add one, and if plax comes back, the better it is for us.

WR corp of

Plax

Johnson/Boldin/TJ

Smith

Manningham

with Hixon as the 5 and returning punts.

DEMO- i think there sick of his act there. Cutting him would be the last resort obviously, but i doubt you get higher than a 3rd rounder for him at this point. Kind of like the Moss situation.

Disgruntled WR, Bad attitude, Bad Year= not much value

If Kenny Britt is still available at the NO pick, I would pick him no matter who we got on the roster.

How do you guys suppose Plax is going to get out of jail time.  Do you really think Mayor Bloomberg is going to stick his tail between his legs and look the other way while Plax gets a free pass.  Bloomberg already came out and asked for punishment to the fullest extent against Plax, if he "allows" leniency now, he would look like a fool/pushover.  

Unforunately, I think it is all over for Plax.

Dream scenario: We trade for CJ. We keep Tyree, who refuses to change his number and CJ is forced to wear ocho cero or ocho ocho. That would be priceless to see it say Ocho Cinco on that back of a number 88 jersey.

TMQB- Bloomburg doesnt have the say, without question Plax is going to choose a jury trial. Its all up to the jury, not Bloomburg.

AXR- his bad year was due to the factr that Carson Palmer didnt reaaly play after he was hurt in week 3 vs NYG. I dont think any reciever would have a great ear with Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing to him,do you? They will still get a high 2 or late first for him,especially with owners like Al, Jerruh and The Daniel

TMQ - I beleive you are right about It being over for Plax, as KD and I have said since day 1. I just cant see him playing another Game in Blue

Another concern I have entering this offseason is Kareem McKenzie.  He seems to be always hurt.  Kevin Boothe lets alot of pressure by him to Manning.

The draft appears to be deep at tackle.  Do we draft an OT with one of our 2nd round picks?  I would think so.

Demo- yea but moss didnt have a good qb either and he still went for a 4th.

Moss last year with Oakland: 42 catches 553 yds 3tds

Johnson: 56 catches 540 yards 4tds

Well Brandon Spikes decided to stay.. Kind of a bummer

The only 3 guys worth getting via trade that give us the Plax factor back are CJ, Braylon, or Boldin. If they can't get a decent deal for one of those guys, then we are going to be in the same boat as the end of this year without a true #1. That guy Samardjiza brought up a while back Barden intrigues me as well. I remembered I looked at his stats and he did put up big game numbers against teams like Wisconsin. I am looking forward to seeing this guy play if he is in the Senior bowl or shrine game or whatever.

what about this guy...he could be cheap

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

I only want Ocho Cinco is we give him a number other than 85. We should retire Stephan Baker's number before any attempt to acquire Chad.

stephen baker the touchdown maker...

axr... RE: Plax

How could a jury not find Plax guily.  He shot himself in the leg with an unregistered gun.  They have the gun, they have the clothes he was wearing when he shot himself, they apparantely have testimony from Pierce and other witnesses (security at the club, the hospital  etc.)  pretty cut and dry case if you ask me.

I wouldnt bank on him being back in blue next year.

You know, a lot of the comments here on Giants101 seem to be based on an assumption that if the Giants don't bring in a "#1 receiver" next season the sky is going to fall. Now, I want one of those guys just as much as the next fan. I was, I think, the first person here who said that without question we should be willing to bring Plax back into the fold if he escaped jail time and was willing to behave in accordance with Grown-Up Rules. I still very much think that. I think I was also the first guy to say that Reese should try to trade for Chad Johnson or Braylon Edwards in order to bring in a real #1 receiver if Plax wasn't going to be back and/or we weren't going to use a high draft pick to bring in his "successor" through the draft. I really, really, want a #1 receiver here in 2009, and most certainly in 2010.

But if you think that a team cannot be successful without a classic #1 receiver, think again. Plenty of teams have managed. As a matter of fact, look no further than the hated Eagles. When has McNabb had a true #1 receiver with him? Never. Look at the Patriots before they brought in Moss. Look at the 1985 Bears. Hell, look at the great Parcells teams of 1986-1990. You can argue that of all the teams left in the chase for the Lombardi Trophy this season only Arizona has a true #1 receiver.

So let's not obsess over that. If the Giants went into next season with Hixon, Smith, Manningham, Moss, Toomer and Tyree, and with the hope that Plax would be back at some point before the mid-point of the season, they would be fine IF the rest of the team was solid and the game plans were appropriate. I'm not suggesting that as the very best solution, but I also wouldn't cry "Woe is me" if that's where we are.

So I still feel that the way the draft should go is to keep pushing to turn our defense and special teams into monsters as the first priority. I spoke months ago about how the Giants need to make themselves even stronger on defense.

They need a great safety. He can be a cover safety or an in-the-box safety, or a flexible guy like Phillips who can do it all in the Spags system that will probably still be in place even if he is gone. Johnson is a "nice" safety but he isn't good enough. Neither is Butler. There must be an upgrade there and the entire defense benefits from a significant upgrade at safety.

We need to either move Kiwi to SAM and get at least one additional stud linebacker through the draft or keep Kiwi at DE and go after two top linebackers, one inside and one outside. I think Kehl, Wilkinson and Goff will be competing for spots next season and at least one will win one of them, but we should bring in competition for them and Pierce and should be sure that we have at least two studs among our three linebackers. You can afford one "average NFL linebacker" on a great defense, but not two. I think Kiwi could become a stud. I think Goff and Kehl (and yes, even Wilkinson) have real upside, but I wouldn't bet on any of them becoming a top linebacker. Either one does and Kiwi is at SAM, or we really need help at those positions. I think that Goff will be better than what we now have in Pierce by 2010, but given his injuries this season I think he was seriously set back and will "arrive" as a real player a year later than he might have. In any case, the Giants should draft a potentially great linebacker and can't wait until the middle rounds to do so.

If Kiwi stays at DE then we have a great rotation there, especially if Henderson is worthy (who knows, but as I've said, 99-out-of-100 7th round picks who get hurt in camp get cut immediately...the Giants kept paying this guy...something must have been seen clearly before he was hurt). If he moves to SAM then the Giants must draft another pass rusher, possibly two.

And we need to strengthen the middle of the defensive front. Robbins was great this year but he's not young. Cofield is above average but not anything special. Alford was very disappointing this season but it may be that he needs more time to reach his potential. In any case, we need a big-time DT, and the only way to get that guy is via the draft or free agency. I cannot see us paying Haynesworth what he'll want and get from someone, so it's likely this will also be a needed draft priority.

The more potential defensive starters you draft the more excellent special team cover guys you may have as well. So "defense first" in a draft means "better special teams". Then you worry about returners and kickers.

I could go on, but the point is it makes no sense to obsess over a receiver when if you go into 2009 in the midst of building the best defense in the NFL (which I believe the Giants are just 2-3 starters away from having) and strong special teams, you can win a championship without a great wide receiver. And there is always the chance that Plax returns and we HAVE a great WR.

Practically speaking, what does the above mean? It means that if you're sitting there with the #46 pick and an excellent wide receiver and an excellent safety or linebacker or defensive tackle or defensive end (or cornerback if the team would move Thomas to safety if they thought the available cornerback was better than any of the available safeties left) is there, I would take the defensive player every time. And I'd probably do the same thing with the #58 pick unless the guy sitting there as a WR was much further up my rankings than the defensive player (and I very much doubt that will be the case).

That would undoubtably be unpopular with the fan base, but if Reese builds a great defense the Giants can win without a classic #1 receiver. And they could always find one next year after building from the defense out.

TMQ, a jury would almost have to find him guilty. But he could be allowed to plea down to a lesser offense before being charged, never see a jury, and never see jail time. It all depends upon the Manhattan DA's office. And those guys tend not to be intimidated by Napolean Bloomberg. They will make their own decision.

Very few people go to jail for accidentally shooting themselves. I'd be surprised if Plax does.

FF 55,

I don't necessarily think the team is doomed if they don't improve their current WR situation. I think they are a playoff team, but quite frankly no matter how good the defense is with this buffoon coaching the offense we aren't going to get far in the playoffs. Honestly, we had the perfect situation in the playoffs THIS year, hell even the 2 seed lost and we lost to the 6th seed because their offense couldn't score in the redzone. The defense played a really good game too and it was wasted. Something has to change for next year on the offensive side even though the defense should be improved with Osi back whether the change being getting rid of Gilbride (probably won't happen) or adding a #1 Wr.

Also, count Plax out. This is turning into a Mike Vick kind of saga. We don't need that on our team.

Gilbride's madness only works when you have a legitimate #1 receiver it has shown. Jerry Reese it's time to work your magic.

jcrown, I absolutely agree that the coaching on the offensive side of the ball has to change, in philospohy and approach if not in actual identity of the coordinator.

But I simply do not accept that you mustr have a classic "#1 receiver" to win a Super Bowl. There have been plenty of teams that have done so without that guy. Again, let me point out that unless the Cards are this year's Lombardi Trophy winners then the top dog this year will have done it without a singularly great receiver. Mason, Ward and Jackson are not exactly names that strike fear into the hearts of their opponents. All three of those teams are doing it with defense, a few good weapons on offense, and very good utilization of their strengths by the coaches in both personnel decisions and game plans.

Don't get me wrong. I would LOVE a legitimate #1 receiver. But I think a Super Bowl can be won without one. And I would absolutely NOT make getting a WR a higher draft priority than a safety, a linebacker, a defensive tackle, and even an additional pass rusher. If we're sitting there and a great receiver falls in our laps, fine, but if Reese/Ross are looking at their "absolute" rankings (the old BPA approach) and a receiver is just a few places higher on the board than a linebacker, I'd take the linebacker (or any of those other defensive spots) every single time.

The real explanation of the game last Sunday is pretty simple. Yeah, there are complications and subtle issues that could be discussed, but it comes down to two things:

1) McNabb outplayer Eli; and

2) The Eagles' coaches made the best use of what they had and the Giants' coaches did not.

The Giants are the better team. Had either of the above not been the case the Giants win.

I'm now absolutely done with looking back at that game. I'll leave that to the Giants and hope that they learn from it.

***UPDATE UP TOP***